Western US drought

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GORDON
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Western US drought

Post by GORDON »

I have some thoughts.

My general, unexamined opinion of the last couple decades, as I've watched the water get lower each time I visit Hoover Dam, has been, "Fuck um, it's untenable to live in the desert. Ask the Anasazi about it."

And I would actually dig in my heels when I would hear some Californian whine about desalinating their own water, out of the ocean. "The added salinity would affect our delicate ecosystems!" And then, without any hint of irony, they suggest why this is why fresh water should be pumped from the Great Lakes. Because fuck THAT ecoystem.

And i myself have contemplated over the years... "Well.... why IS that a bad idea? Capture that fresh water from the Mississippi right before it enters the Gulf of Mexico, or from the St. Lawrence Seaway right before it hits the Atlantic." Yes, I considered that the salt/fresh water mix ecosystems in those areas could be affected... but.... make omelet/break a few eggs you'd never see, anyway? It didn't seem like a horrible payoff. Damaging the population of brackish water puffers doesn't seem like a nightmare scenario.

So, on the subject of nightmare scenarios.... let's say this drought doesn't break. Even another year is going to be bad, in two years Phoenix is going to start to die of thirst. But I mentioned the Anasazi... geologically speaking, droughts happen, whether exacerbated by anthropomorphic climate change, or not. It can last years, or decades, or centuries, or a millennia. Earth is still leaving the last Ice Age, shit is in flux, and has been our entire lives. There's no guarentee Lake Mead isn't going to go dry in a decade, shutting down the Hoover Dam. Lack of electricity is one thing, and can be remedied... but you'll die of thirst in 4 days in Phoenix, and there's no quick fix for a water shortage.

All the while, we eastern-US peeps can just chuckle and say, "Hey, idiots. Move to where the water is." (RIP Sam Kinison)

But do you have any knowledge of the water cycle, the jet stream, and the general climate of the USA? The wind generally comes from the west, here. Water evaporates somewhere to the west, and generally gets dropped somewhere east of it when conditions are right. In the High Plaines you have rain shadows... the areaws behind mountains in the lee of the wind where the air had to go so high over the mountains, it wasn't able to release the water vapor until deeper into Nebraska, or wherever. Doesnt rain there.

Well what's going to happen to us in the East when there's no ground water out west to evaporate, to feed our rain clouds? Western drought can turn into below-average rainfalls in the east (I recognize we get frequent rains from hurricanes in the summer, even in Ohio). And the Ogallala Aquifer is already being pumped dry to keep much of the Great Plaines producing wheat. Clock is ticking there, too.

BUT.... let's look at it from another aspect. Too much ice melt at the poles can weaken the ocean currents, the engines that bring warm water from the equator toward the poles. These engines can shut down entirely, if the saline level doesn't stay at a current level. There's a theory that this current shutoff caused the last mini ice ace 13k years ago, when a massive fresh water lake the size of the Black Sea drained away in Canada, as the glacier ice receded. It triggered a new 1k year ice period when the oceans stopped churning.

So with that information, as we watch the Northwest Passage clear of ice, and icebergs the size of Delaware calve off of Antarctica, we can worry about ocean saline levels stopping the heat-pump in the ocean.

And that being said.... doesn't that make diverting fresh water from The Mississippi, and the St. Laurence Seaway, a measure to help keep the salinity of the oceans from dropping past that threshold, and keep the currents moving?

So there, there's my two extremely good reasons that maybe the east should help the west with their water problems, in spite of how generally ignorant, arrogant, and silly those people are.

And I hope someone in our very silly, short-sided, incompetent government is considering this
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
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Troy
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Western US drought

Post by Troy »

La Nina is going to come back this winter. 3 winters in a row now!

That's bad - conditions unlikely to fix themselves in the wet season. Southern California and the southern most western states especially.

Less than ~10 inches of rain per year the last two years in La Ninas in my area. Another La Nina winter with the same and we'll really be moving towards major desertification.

Good infographic:

Image
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Time to sacrifice some children.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

This won't be popular, but maybe we need the world to absolutely crumble for humanity to progress?
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Troy
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Post by Troy »

TheCatt wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 pm Time to sacrifice some children.
"The Aztecs were right! Vote for human sacrifices to save the planet in 2024!"
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Post by TheCatt »

Troy wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:10 pm
TheCatt wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 pm Time to sacrifice some children.
"The Aztecs were right! Vote for human sacrifices to save the planet in 2024!"
I was thinking of the Incas, since it was child sacrifice, but Aztecs, too.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Most of the native americans were quick to kill a G to feed their gods's thirst for blood.

But that prolly wont be enough to make the grass grow in Arizona.
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Troy
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Post by Troy »

Leisher wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:07 pm This won't be popular, but maybe we need the world to absolutely crumble for humanity to progress?
The book series "The Three Body Problem" was big on this. Basically we've gone too long without a Dark Ages. Need one to toughen up the population and let a bunch of us eat each other. Morbid but realistic.
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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:39 pm Good infographic:

Image
Been looking close at this. What's the defining characteristic... are those counter-clockwise winds STRONGER, and that's what pulls more cooler water up from the south pole?
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:49 pm Been looking close at this. What's the defining characteristic... are those counter-clockwise winds STRONGER, and that's what pulls more cooler water up from the south pole?
Based on the size of the arrows, yes.

But, also, yes.
La Niña is a complex weather pattern that occurs every few years, as a result of variations in ocean temperatures in the equatorial band of the Pacific Ocean,[1] The phenomenon occurs as strong winds blow warm water at the ocean’s surface away from South America, across the Pacific Ocean towards Indonesia.[1] As this warm water moves west, cold water from the deep sea rises to the surface near South America;[1] it is considered to be the cold phase of the broader El Niño–Southern Oscillation (ENSO) weather phenomenon, as well as the opposite of El Niño weather pattern.[1] The movement of so much heat across a quarter of the planet, and particularly in the form of temperature at the ocean surface, can have a significant effect on weather across the entire planet.
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:25 am
Leisher wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:07 pm This won't be popular, but maybe we need the world to absolutely crumble for humanity to progress?
The book series "The Three Body Problem" was big on this. Basically we've gone too long without a Dark Ages. Need one to toughen up the population and let a bunch of us eat each other. Morbid but realistic.
"For what it's worth, we hope you eat the food, before the food eats you."
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Leisher
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Western US drought

Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:17 pm Lake Mead approaching deadpool.
Time to drink up that ocean water.
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Post by GORDON »

My Dad just moved from Phoenix, to TN. He thinks the SW is fucked.
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Post by Leisher »

More info on the bodies found.
including confirmation that the gunshot victim's death was a homicide.
What?!?! The body stuffed into a barrel and shot wasn't an accidental death? Color me shocked.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

It just screams "natural causes."

I'm confirming my original post. I think helping the west stay wet is in the East's best interest.
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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