TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:52 pm
Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:40 pm
, but we didn't see his plan happen, we saw Biden's and it sucked.
He plan was the same. He reduced the troops to almost nothing. He just didn't stick around to execute it.
I will not argue Trump's execution or plan was better. No way. I have zero faith he would have done things right either. However, the plan used, whether it was Biden's or Trump's, was garbage. Ultimately, the majority of the blame has to fall on the guy who was in charge when the plan was executed.
Let's say the Kansas City Chiefs fired Reid and hired you. You start by replacing all of the coaches and office staff with your own people. The team then goes 4-16 in your first year after making the Super Bowl the prior season, you don't get to blame Reid. Sure, he might have been responsible for some aspects of the drop off, but you were at the helm with total control during the fall. You've got to shoulder the majority of the blame. Biden might not like it, but the majority of the public, not to mention other world governments and a lot of the MSM, think he is mostly responsible.
TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:43 pm
GORDON wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:28 pm
I don't accept that. If it sucked, Biden was supposed to be the one to stop it because he is supposed to be better, and he was in charge.
US dont give a fuck about foreigners any more. or something. i dunno.
Part of why it sucked is because there are still thousands of Americans there, not troops either. There are also thousands of Afghan civilians that worked with us who are now in harm's way and want out. Not to mention the thousands of other foreign nationals from our allies.
The proper plan was to slowly leave and ensure everyone who wanted out could get out. If the country falls at that point, Biden takes a minor hit, but shares it equally with Trump, Obama, and Bush. It would be all their fault for not properly training the Afghans or doing enough to change the culture. Leaving like it was a fire drill with no care given to assets and people was just irresponsible and careless. The Taliban would have agreed to allowing such an operation to be handled peacefully because it would not only mean the Americans were leaving, but also they'd be taking a lot of Taliban enemies with them.
It's honestly not fair to Biden or Trump that Obama and Bush don't get mentioned as often in this blame game. The entire 20 years we were there was not handled well. We should have been training the troops differently. We should have been really changing the culture. We should have given them more scaled down weaponry. We should have leaned on Pakistan in a BIG fucking way to stop supporting the Taliban, not to mention slapping them for the whole bin Laden thing.
Biden was in an unwinnable situation, but he made it worse by playing politics in a warzone. Go look at his polls and the polls for leaving Afghanistan. He had a great approval rating and most everybody was on board with leaving. He had three more years to get everyone out safely. Now his polling is unfavorable and about half of Americans (more righties than lefties though) think this was handled horribly. This will absolutely get play in the next two election cycles and has to make any rational person wonder about the other massive policies he's trying to enact. Have they been properly thought out? Is he rushing everything knowing he is on borrowed time? Not an age joke, but it does make you wonder. What was the rush? He was VP for 8 years under Obama. Not only should he have had far more knowledge about the situation there, but if it was so important to him, why not push for the move back then?
The whole situation just sucks.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
