Post-Corona Economy

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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

TheCatt wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:16 pm
GORDON wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm Keep the unions out of it, and within a month you could have a massive, new floating dock system off some city that currently doesn't have one. Let the Japanese design and build it.
This isn't the first time we've had issues with the docks over there in the past 20 years. I'm GUESSING that it's basically impossible to build a new dock on that coast for environmental reasons or something.
Or the Longshoremen like having their stranglehold.
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“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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I mean, the entire reason it's going up 5.9% is inflation, CNN.

Trees are green, but they also contain chlorophyll!
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:02 amTrees are green
No their leaves are green...but not in the fall! :D
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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So, all these people that skipped getting an education, skipped getting a skill, did nothing with their time, want better pay and benefits.

I also like the part where everyone is bitching about how they don't want to work for shit pay, then complain that child care costs too much. "I don't want to work for shit pay, but I'd like you to.".

Instead of getting an education, getting a skill, you know TRYING, they just want everyone to start rewarding them more. "I didn't do shit with my life/time, but I'd like to be compensated the same as those that did." The whole time I was working those shit jobs, I was also doing something else that made me more marketable and worth more in the job market.

Many of these people are still riding the "Can't be evicted and unemployment train". I think the federal add-ons have ended, not sure. But they can still get regular unemployment. Plus, they don't have to pay their rent. People are still doing ok. Digging a VERY deep hole that they will just walk away from, but ok. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for the people who, instead of bettering their situation through effort, are trying to extort employers through non-action. "I could go to school and learn a trade. Or, I can just sit here and wait for people to get really desperate."
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Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:50 pm I think the federal add-ons have ended, not sure.
Unemployment ended 1.5 months ago for the remaining states, several months ago for other states.

Eviction moratorium ended 2 months ago.
Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:50 pm So, all these people that skipped getting an education, skipped getting a skill, did nothing with their time, want better pay and benefits.
Yep, that sums up everyone.
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TheCatt wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:32 pm Yep, that sums up everyone.
Yeah, while I agree with Cake that there are indeed a lot of folks who just want the easiest road in life, there are also a lot of folks actively working who are sick and tired of the bullshit.

Kellogg's is on strike after it came out that their CEO made some ridiculous amount this year. John Deere is on strike as their workers are demanding better conditions and whatnot. Hollywood apparently just averted a strike that would have started today, but union membership is apparently not thrilled with the deal, so stay tuned. There are several other strikes going on as that article alludes to.

Truck drivers are scarce because a bunch retired during covid, the pay is shit, and it's not exactly an awesome job.

I have a theory and impossible solutions :D , but this is where I was going in the salary thread, and I'm watching the Steelers, so I don't want to get into it right this second.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

TheCatt wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:32 pm
Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:50 pm I think the federal add-ons have ended, not sure.
Unemployment ended 1.5 months ago for the remaining states, several months ago for other states.

Eviction moratorium ended 2 months ago.
Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:50 pm So, all these people that skipped getting an education, skipped getting a skill, did nothing with their time, want better pay and benefits.
Yep, that sums up everyone.
Ok. Then I have no idea how they are surviving. But it's not on skills and smart decisions.
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Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:59 pm But it's not on skills and smart decisions.
I mean, have you met people? There's a lot of not smart people in the world. And even if they're smart, there are smarter people. Someone has to clean up the bathrooms, work the fast food, etc. The median worker in the US makes about $20/hour. So half the people make more, and half make less. I can't imagine what it'd be to try and live on that (or less), and try to spend my time improving my skills, etc. It's hard. It's competitive. Especially when your natural gifts just aren't that much.
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The fact that it's actually required by law to attend school as a child, presumably before one has other problems and obligations, is a big argument against "not my fault." If the child isn't forced to take advantage of the free education, whose fault is it (parents)? And who is responsible for fixing it? We're not allowed to suggest 2-parent households are more stable for children and apply social pressure to make it happen, so I don't think anyone is actually interested in fixing it beyond "take money from rich people and also all my problems are from (other group of people)."
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TheCatt wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:48 am There's a lot of not smart people in the world.
Oh ya. Totally agree. And I'm all for helping those people. Very much so. Hell, I've often said that Walmart employs the unemployable.

$20/hr, roughly 40k/year. Dual income home, 80k/year. You can EASILY live on, raise a family on, 80k/year in MUCH of the country. Hell, by far, most of the country.

There are too many people that wasted college (English Major, minoring in women's studies or some shit. This was my niece.), or wasted their time by not getting a marketable skill. Next thing you know, they've got kids, responsibilities, no skills, and want people to just support them by paying them more than they are worth.

You will never hear me complain about helping the people that need it. But there are just way way way way too many people taking advantage of the system, instead of taking care of themselves. Too many capable people, that made poor choices and just want a bail out.

Solution? No idea. I don't feel like taking the time to figure it out because it wouldn't happen anyway. But as much as I hold the people fucking the system responsible, I also hold the people that made the system responsible. They should be fixing it. We can do better. They choose not to because of votes. I'm not for removing assistance, subsidies for those that need it, etc. I'm am for reform. Fix it. Punish the offenders, etc. Too many capable people wanting to live of those of us that actually try. No respect for freeloaders.
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Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:08 pm $20/hr, roughly 40k/year. Dual income home, 80k/year. You can EASILY live on, raise a family on, 80k/year in MUCH of the country. Hell, by far, most of the country.
Dual income home? Well, now let's add daycare, and after school care... and medical and dental and vision...
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Or don't have kids yet. But lets just go ahead and remove all personal responsibility! People should be allowed to be drains on society. Basic human right.
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:19 pm Or don't have kids yet. But lets just go ahead and remove all personal responsibility! People should be allowed to be drains on society. Basic human right.
Life is for the rich, got it.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:37 pm
Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:19 pm Or don't have kids yet. But lets just go ahead and remove all personal responsibility! People should be allowed to be drains on society. Basic human right.
Life is for the rich, got it.
You have become the master of oversimplification. :D
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 pm
TheCatt wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:37 pm
Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:19 pm Or don't have kids yet. But lets just go ahead and remove all personal responsibility! People should be allowed to be drains on society. Basic human right.
Life is for the rich, got it.
You have become the master of oversimplification. :D
Eh, at some point it's just not worth arguing over. I do believe in simplifying things. For everything there's "but whatabout (blah)" where blah is like a 1% or 10% or 0.1% of the problem. Focus on the big stuff.
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I think your .1-10% estimate is WAY too low. So, out of all 50% of the population that is earning under $20, you think only 10-.1% don't belong there? That 40% to 50% of our population needs help surviving?
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:08 pm 80k/year in MUCH of the country. Hell, by far, most of the country.
Well, since we're talking median salary, we should talk median COL. Which looks like Pennsylvania. But average Pennsylvania.

Looks like our median earner could support themselves, no children. Once any children are added, need dual earners: https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/42

I guess we could talk about how wonderful it is to have 2 working parents...
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 pm I think your .1-10% estimate is WAY too low. So, out of all 50% of the population that is earning under $20, you think only 10-.1% don't belong there? That 40% to 50% of our population needs help surviving?
I didn't make that statement, those #s were more of a typical thing for arguments.

Currently 52% of Americans receive some kind of benefit from the US, right? (Social Security Medicare, subsidized healthcare, welfare, etc). My general argument, I believe, is why not raise minimum wage to reduce that?
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