The SCOTUS thread

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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

SCOTUS declines "fetal personhood" case.

Interesting. They overturned Roe v Wade claiming there's nothing in the Constitution protecting that right, and saying it should be left up to the states. Everyone thought that was horseshit and it was just right leaning folks dumping something they didn't agree with (something the left does just as often...).

However, turning down this case would seem to imply maybe SCOTUS wasn't completely lying? Declaring a fetus a person with full Constitutional protection would have put the death nail in abortion throughout the country.

Or maybe they just saw the polls and said, "Let's table that for now." :D
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Post by TheCatt »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:30 pm
Oh, let's go ahead and make predictions.
Mississippi's Gestational Age Act, passed in 2018 but blocked by two federal courts, allows abortion after 15 weeks "only in medical emergencies or for severe fetal abnormality" and has no exception for rape or incest. If doctors perform abortions outside the parameters of the law they will have their medical licenses suspended or revoked and may be subject to additional penalties and fines.
I predict SCOTUS agrees with MS, 5-4.
!Rmindme 6/1/2022
SCOTUS 6-3 with MS.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:04 pm has no exception for rape or incest.
I will listen all day if you want to discuss banning abortion is saving a life. I genuinely think that's a fair argument that must be considered. But you lose me and most Americans every time you stick to this stipulation.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Why? Isn't a life a life? I've often had a problem with people claiming it's murder, but then adding exceptions like incest, rape, mother's health, etc. God's will is God's will, no?

I'm actually pro choice, but will listen to evidence of when the life becomes a life, etc. I'm anti murder, so when "a fetus becomes a life" would be part of my criteria for how I feel about things. My belief (no science to back it up) is at conception, not a life. Moments before birth, is a life. When it makes the transition, I have no idea. That's why I'm ok with the woman making the decision because I'm not educated enough to make it for her.

But if/when science says "This is when it becomes a life", that would be the cut off point I would support.
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Cakedaddy wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:36 pm Why? Isn't a life a life? I've often had a problem with people claiming it's murder, but then adding exceptions like incest, rape, mother's health, etc. God's will is God's will, no?
It absolutely is, and this is what I would have expected to hear from a pro-lifer, so I'm glad you asked it.

In the cases of rape and incest, by not allowing abortion you are committing a heinous act of punishment upon the victim, not the criminal/abuser. A further escalation of that crime that they will not be able to escape for the rest of their lives. It is, literally, impossible to save every cow in a herd, so sometimes hard choices have to be made. You know what's easy? Getting rid of the herd that are unborn products of rape and incest.

"They say even a baby created through rape or incest is a gift from God. It's a pretty shitty gift." - Jim Norton
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Post by Cakedaddy »

But if your argument is "It's a life", then it is what it is. I get what you are saying and don't dispute it. I'm just saying, I understand the "no exceptions" clause because it fits their "It's a life" argument. To deviate from that is extremely hypocritical because even "shitty gifts" shouldn't be murdered. The 'pro lifers' that allow exceptions are only doing it to garner votes because they know they lose a lot of them when they say "no exceptions".

Bottom line, no matter the circumstances, a life is a life and shouldn't be murdered. And when they say "for the health of the mother". . . anyone know any moms that would sacrifice their kids to save themselves?! 8)
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“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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It doesn't sound like Gonzalez v. Google is going well for Gonzalez.
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“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by GORDON »

So they're hearing the student loan forgiveness argument today.

I don't know how they can wipe it all without claiming that at 18, you are mentally incapable of entering into a contract. Because that would set a precedent that any contract/debt can be wiped, just because, right?

That would be interesting.
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It doesn't look good for Biden's loan forgiveness.
In extended remarks to Campbell, Justice Sonia Sotomayor laid out the practical implications of the case in stark terms.

“There’s 50 million students who are – who will benefit from this. Who today will struggle. Many of them don’t have assets sufficient to bail them out after the pandemic. They don’t have friends or families or others who can help them make these payments,” she remarked. Those debtors will suffer in ways others won’t because of the pandemic, she said.

“And what you’re saying is now we’re going to give judges the right to decide how much aid to give them instead of the person with the expertise and the experience, the secretary of education who’s been dealing with educational issues and the problems surrounding student loans,” she said.
A couple of things here:
-It's really not the job of the government to help people out of legal debt that they agreed to get into.
-Her last sentence hilariously lacks self-awareness. Hey dipshit, you, literally, just heard arguments the day prior about the internet. Are you technology experts? No. Your job isn't to be experts on every topic just on the Constitution and law.
-Also, maybe, just maybe, the government shouldn't have created this issue with college in the first place with their guaranteed loans?
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Post by GORDON »

The New Deal was rife with programs FDR introduced to give federal money to citizens, that SCOTUS shot down. The solution was usually "introduce the same plan again except this time worded a little differently."
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Post by Leisher »

John Roberts swinging his gavel around.
He also showed an attitude toward basic policy choices, as he questioned the fairness of federal assistance for a student who had taken out a college loan, over someone who’d never had a college opportunity and instead started a lawn care service.

“Along comes the government and tells that person: You don’t have to pay your loan,” Roberts said of a hypothetical college loan borrower. “Nobody’s telling the person who is trying to set up the lawn service business that he doesn’t have to pay his loan. He still does, even though his tax dollars are going to support the forgiveness of the loan for the college graduate, who’s now going to make a lot more than him over the course of his lifetime.”
Why are we handing out freebies to one person, but not another? Is it because one demographic happens to vote for one party over another?
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Post by GORDON »

That's the only slight problem I have with all that. On the one hand, businesses get "bailouts" all the time that rarely trickle down to regular people. On the other I paid my student loans already. No love for me?
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Post by Leisher »

GORDON wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:14 pm businesses get "bailouts" all the time
And they shouldn't. Fuck 'em.
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Post by GORDON »

Yeah but a lot of that money goes right back into reelection coffers, so politicians are kinda obligated to do it.
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:14 pm That's the only slight problem I have with all that. On the one hand, businesses get "bailouts" all the time that rarely trickle down to regular people.
Right?

Hey Roberts, remember all those PPP "loans" that were forgiven? TARP? S&L Bailout? Fannie + Freddie? Bear Stearns? AIG? HOLC? That was a stupid argument. Money always falls disproportionately by some measure.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:39 pm remember all those PPP "loans" that were forgiven? TARP? S&L Bailout? Fannie + Freddie? Bear Stearns? AIG? HOLC?
Those loans should have never happened. Let them fail. Fuck 'em.
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:43 pm
TheCatt wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:39 pm remember all those PPP "loans" that were forgiven? TARP? S&L Bailout? Fannie + Freddie? Bear Stearns? AIG? HOLC?
Those loans should have never happened. Let them fail. Fuck 'em.
Well, that's an ideologically consistent perspective. But Roberts' perspective was not so much in that excerpt.
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Post by TheCatt »

Thomas should be removed from the court.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/06/clarenc ... eport.html
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