The [s]First[/s] Only Trump term...so far

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Malcolm
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The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

That's preposterous. Hitler won the popular vote.
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Malcolm
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The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

More on the hilarious failure to repeal Obamacare.
Drumpf's admission that the hard-liners didn't come around suggests that he may be forced to recognize the limits of his dealmaking abilities.
Whoa, "abilities" ... like, plural? I already call bullshit. If force of some sort doesn't work, he seems completely out of ideas.
He spent the past few weeks courting these conservatives, hosting them at the White House several times. At one point, he even bragged that a lot of the “no's” had flipped to “yes's.”

In the end, he didn't turn enough. Neither Drumpf nor Republican leaders could win over about a dozen of the 35 to 40 House Freedom Caucus members. Many of them wanted a repeal of the Affordable Care Act — something Republican leaders said they couldn't do under budget rules — or nothing at all.
I could see how that douche pestering me for several days would make me less likely to cooperate with him. How incompetent must one be to have control over both the legislative and executive branch and still fuck up doing the hallmark thing one's party has been chomping at the bit to do for over half a dozen years? Looks like we have an answer.

There's a word for that.
“Part of it is trying to figure out as you go down this path who you can rely on and who’s going to keep your word,” Spicer said after the bill failed, according to the Wall Street Journal.

“Who’s going to negotiate in good faith? We dealt with over 120 members of Congress and you learn a little about some of these individuals ... You just learn a lot about who you can count on and who you can’t,” he said.

"Some people kept saying, 'I'm trying to get with you,' and then they’d come back day after day and say, 'Here’s the next thing I need.' The reservoir never got dry," Spicer said.
Weird, it's almost like POLITICS is involved.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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The First Trump term.

Post by Leisher »

Troy wrote: Turns out IT IS really fucking hard.
I don't think it's that hard. I think the law that was enacted was such a massive pile of shit that "fixing" it won't be easy. However, getting people without medical coverage covered was never hard.

I floated the idea out previously that the government could have simply handed the list of uninsured to insurance companies and let them bid on it, but I have a new plan. Put all the uninsured on the same plan as vets. They can use the VA. Now let's see how the "tens of millions" without insurance feel about the care our vets get.
Troy wrote: Feeling vindicated doesn't solve any problems.
That's true, but the problem is for many people, that feeling is the goal, not the resolution of issues.
Troy wrote: As far as the Democrats being the party of "no" now - It'll be a long road back to meet in the middle. Can you really blame them for dragging their feet? They haven't been offered many carrots for that to happen. Were denied a SC seat that was open for nearly a year, host of other similar stuff. I know the "right" thing to do is to turn the other cheek, but that's so much easier said than done.
Yes, I can blame them for dragging their feet. They just spent 8 years with the top job, and four of that with full control of the government. They spent exactly zero time reaching across the aisle to work with Republicans. Sure, there was lip service paid, but it was "Here's what we're doing. You can vote for it or not. We have the votes so we don't care." The last 8 years was the left screaming about how "like it or not, he's OUR president, so let's all work together". Here we are now with the same folks screaming "he's not MY president" and trying to boycott or block every move the Repubs make. It's maddening.

So right now, I'm more pissed at the left than the right, but don't think for a minute that I'm forgiving the right of their ignorance and sins.

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TheCatt
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The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

So you want nationalized healthcare for all?
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Troy
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The First Trump term.

Post by Troy »

Leisher wrote: Yes, I can blame them for dragging their feet. They just spent 8 years with the top job, and four of that with full control of the government. They spent exactly zero time reaching across the aisle to work with Republicans. Sure, there was lip service paid, but it was "Here's what we're doing. You can vote for it or not. We have the votes so we don't care." The last 8 years was the left screaming about how "like it or not, he's OUR president, so let's all work together". Here we are now with the same folks screaming "he's not MY president" and trying to boycott or block every move the Repubs make. It's maddening.
I too am turned on by that image.

After I posted that this weekend, Trump and Priebus both came out and said it was time to reach across the aisle to get stuff done. Sounds like they were banking on having the same blanket support from their party Obama had. Lip service? Just trying to get the "no" republicans in line? Dunno - but would be a good start.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: So you want nationalized healthcare for all?
Not that black and white no.

The number one thing that pisses me off when people talk about how other countries have nationalized health care is they ignore how shitty they are and how good our system was. They never mention that someone with a life threatening condition couldn't be turned away, by law. People from around the world come HERE for medical technologies and breakthroughs that aren't available elsewhere, including those countries with nationalized health care. Our system paid for all the R&D inventing the new procedures and drugs. Granted, our costs were/are out of control, but if only insurance was the only industry were that was true...

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing us healthcare. That's not the government's job. They should not be interfering with private businesses' ability to give its employees health care as a benefit, nor should they be setting those rules.

That being said, I do think the government should provide health care to its employees. However, I think it should be one plan for all. So a wounded soldier gets the same treatment as a Senator.

I also think the government could help provide a safety blanket for the uninsured. The biggest caveat being that a person doesn't HAVE to have a plan or pay a penalty if they choose to remain uncovered. The uninsured were already guaranteed care by law if life threatening. Why not extend it slightly to help folks out? You'd be helping the country. I'm not down with letting someone who's unemployed schedule 200 doctor's appointments a year for giggles, but if we can help someone deal with chronic pain so they can return to work, that's a win-win, right?
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The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

I'm just wondering how you interpret 'equality' from that image you posted. Equality of opportunity? Equality of outcomes?
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The First Trump term.

Post by TPRJones »

TheCatt wrote: So you want nationalized healthcare for all?
At this point we might as well. It can't be worse than what we have, and other countries seem to make it work fairly well. Relatively speaking.
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The First Trump term.

Post by GORDON »

Do other countries control the costs of medical research, medicine/drugs itself, and doctor salaries? I can't see national health care being affordable any other way.
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Malcolm
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The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

Leisher wrote: Granted, our costs were/are out of control
That's sort of the major fucking problem and one the AHCA was intended to address. Health care is expensive. But not nearly as expensive as not having it.
Leisher wrote: Put all the uninsured on the same plan as vets. They can use the VA. Now let's see how the "tens of millions" without insurance feel about the care our vets get.
I'd laugh so hard. As I've said before, if Drumpf wants to make America great, let's see him reform that pile of shit. It'd make a great reality show if it weren't actually happening.
Leisher wrote: Here we are now with the same folks screaming "he's not MY president" and trying to boycott or block every move the Repubs make. It's maddening.
All they have to do is get their rank and file in rank and file, and they'd be fine. Unfortunately, Andrew Dice Drumpf is managing to aggravate and alienate lots of pachyderms he really needs. They're having to pull a dick move to get their boy in the Supreme Court.
Gorsuch needs 60 votes to clear a procedural hurdle required of high-court confirmations in the Senate, but Republicans, who hold just 52 seats, may not have the votes in a chamber that is divided deeply along partisan lines.

Republicans do, however, have the votes to choose the “nuclear” option — to change the rules and allow Gorsuch’s confirmation (and others after it) to proceed on a simple majority vote. That would upend a longstanding Senate tradition that forces the governing party to seek bipartisan support.
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Troy
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The First Trump term.

Post by Troy »

The Daily Show blaming the Geico lizard for current debacle. Making insurance look too easy, something you can do in 15 minutes or less.
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The First Trump term.

Post by Vince »

TPRJones wrote:
TheCatt wrote: So you want nationalized healthcare for all?
At this point we might as well. It can't be worse than what we have, and other countries seem to make it work fairly well. Relatively speaking.
I'd say it works pretty well in other countries for routine stuff. When things get bad, those with money (and I'm talking upper middle class) almost always come here because the treatment is better and waiting 6-8 weeks might mean you're dead.

Also, anyone thinking it can't be worse than what we have has not been keeping up with what's been happening in the VA hospitals.
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Post by GORDON »

I was assured the VA was not representative of the excellent care people would receive under true nationalized health care.
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Post by TPRJones »

Indeed, I was including the VA situation in the "what we have" group.

On the plus side, the main problem with the VA is that their record-keeping is mired in the early 1900s. If they do have any computers up in there they're running on tubes. Moving the whole country into line with the VA system would mean we'd finally buy them some real computers and get that mess cleaned up.
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Post by GORDON »

I'm not sure if that's the "main" problem. I used to try to deal with the VA.... I never had the impression that the overworked doctors they could afford were all that great, or cared much at all. Yes, it took them about 2 months to move my records from Cleveland to NC. Computer would render that problem moot. But it also takes a minimum of 3 weeks to get in when you're having chest pains, and that's an overwhelmed, understaffed system. I don't see that changing by scaling up to a national level.
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The First Trump term.

Post by TPRJones »

It would certainly get more attention on the problem.

Solutions may be a different matter.
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Post by Leisher »

I can't find a good article about this, just video, but Sean Spicer told some reporter to stop shaking her head during a white house briefing and the left is criticizing him. Thing he, he's in the right. The media is there to report, not judge.
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The First Trump term.

Post by TPRJones »

It depends on what was being said at the time. The media is supposed to judge the truthfulness of things, based on available evidence, and if Spicer was saying something at the time that was clearly a lie then head shaking is to be expected.

However the media have abdicated their integrity, so odds are it was some political point she was disagreeing on and on the whole she's just as awful as he is anyway.
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Troy
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The First Trump term.

Post by Troy »

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Malcolm
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The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

Leisher wrote: The media is there to report, not judge.
I hear that kind of dispassionate reporting really sells papers and keeps public officials honest.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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