Ok..... KHHHAAAAAN!
Now that that is out of the way, I feel they did a good job not spoilering who was the villain.
I liked the new warp core that actually looked like a fucking anti-matter reaction chamber instead of a pretty pulsing blue light tube.
A misstep, I think: they had 72 tubes full of supermen, just like Khan. Yet at the end they have to try real hard to take Khan alive so they can get his blood to save Kirk. And they have 72 more in tubes right next to them. And they even have to unfreeze one to put Kirk into stasis. Bu they need blood from the superman, Khan. See where I am going with that?
JJ Trek 2 *spoiler thread* - SPOILER THREAD
Yeah, I had no clue he was Khan until the Klingon fight. Once I saw him in action, I knew where it was going.
Ditto. Far more realistic than what was used on ST:TNG, although that show is in the future...
I thought the same thing.
I loved how they gave every cast member something to do, and while it felt really forced at the very end, it still worked.
Interesting changes to Spock. I like the idea that he is tapping into more of his human side thanks to Vulcan being destroyed. It actually does make him more interesting.
Sucks to be Christopher Pike and die in all timelines.
Loved the nods to TOS.
Was that Data?
I liked the new warp core that actually looked like a fucking anti-matter reaction chamber instead of a pretty pulsing blue light tube.
Ditto. Far more realistic than what was used on ST:TNG, although that show is in the future...
A misstep, I think: they had 72 tubes full of supermen, just like Khan. Yet at the end they have to try real hard to take Khan alive so they can get his blood to save Kirk. And they have 72 more in tubes right next to them. And they even have to unfreeze one to put Kirk into stasis. Bu they need blood from the superman, Khan. See where I am going with that?
I thought the same thing.
I loved how they gave every cast member something to do, and while it felt really forced at the very end, it still worked.
Interesting changes to Spock. I like the idea that he is tapping into more of his human side thanks to Vulcan being destroyed. It actually does make him more interesting.
Sucks to be Christopher Pike and die in all timelines.
Loved the nods to TOS.
Was that Data?
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I watched Jimmy Kimmel Live with the guy who played Khan as a guest. (The guy who plays Sherlock in the BBC series)
Jimmy said something like, "we can't mention your character's name" and I immediately thought, "Oh crap he's playing Khan!"
I kept waiting for the reveal, and yep.
I never thought about them having 72 blood donors, yet they chased down Khan. Good point.
Jimmy said something like, "we can't mention your character's name" and I immediately thought, "Oh crap he's playing Khan!"
I kept waiting for the reveal, and yep.
I never thought about them having 72 blood donors, yet they chased down Khan. Good point.
Leisher wrote:Sucks to be Christopher Pike and die in all timelines.
Ha, I had the same thought today, randomly. Nigga just gets fucked over in every reality, and this time he didn't even have the Thalosians (?) to save him.
I think Quinto is doing a great job as NuSpock.... but I will really miss Nimoy when he is gone. I watch the old episodes and movies, and goddam, Nimoy is just amazing. He isn't playing an alien without emotions.... he is playing an alien who suppresses emotions, and he never shows emotions, but you can still see the emotions under the surface. That isn't just acting, he is an artist.
Quinto isn't as subtle.
Edited By GORDON on 1369190902
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Best movie ever made, IMO. But I'm still high as fuck from the rush of seeing it.
I loved all the hundreds of subtle details they put into this. They must have an army of hardcore asshole Trek nitpickers looking at what they do during production and finding ways to make perfect little callbacks to the old universe but in ways with a nice twist. I could spend pages on those little details if I could remember them all. For now the obvious: the way the death scene played off of the first second movie was just right. Also, bringing in Carol Marcus (a.k.a. Mrs. James T. Kirk) is a nice touch with it's own interesting implications. There are many more but I'd have to watch it again while taking notes to do it justice.
I figured it was probably Kahn when the blood saved the girl. Although I was prepared to be annoyed about how he shouldn't be there because they were set adrift centuries before the changes to the timeline. But I'll accept the after-the-first-movie-they-searched-nearby-sectors-for-danger bit.
I can also forgive the what-about-all-this-other-blood question. After all it was specifically Kahn's blood that brought back the tribble, and there's no telling what else they might have done to boost him further after waking him up. Between that possibility and the others still being in stasis and thus maybe not all the way up to full potential I can see preferring Kahn's blood itself if you can get it.
This movie leaves me with three speculative questions/comments:
1) I love how much of a mindfuck this whole reboot has been to the main characters. Spock especially has really been put through a psychological grinder. I'm watching him every moment waiting for him to snap and go full berserker on everyone. Speaking of which, how long until Pon Farr and are there eligible single Vulcan gals left? They're probably all busy already having babies as quickly as possible to repopulate. That would be the logical thing to do.
2) With as horrific as recent history has been in this timeline and with all the best ships and crews of Starfleet slaughtered in the first movie, why are they sending off Earth's only powerful defense on a five year mission to deep space? These guys are so determined to be naively optimistic in the face of a brutal universe that it's almost charming.
3) This movie gives me even more hope for Star Wars excellence. A director with a body count in the many billions in this reboot won't be afraid to tell Lucas to go fuck himself if he balks at some lovable scoundrel shooting first. Whatever else he is, JJ Abrams is clearly a genius when it comes to how characters tick, and won't put up with any pretend-the-actors-are-a-type-of-prop crap from Lucas.
I loved all the hundreds of subtle details they put into this. They must have an army of hardcore asshole Trek nitpickers looking at what they do during production and finding ways to make perfect little callbacks to the old universe but in ways with a nice twist. I could spend pages on those little details if I could remember them all. For now the obvious: the way the death scene played off of the first second movie was just right. Also, bringing in Carol Marcus (a.k.a. Mrs. James T. Kirk) is a nice touch with it's own interesting implications. There are many more but I'd have to watch it again while taking notes to do it justice.
I figured it was probably Kahn when the blood saved the girl. Although I was prepared to be annoyed about how he shouldn't be there because they were set adrift centuries before the changes to the timeline. But I'll accept the after-the-first-movie-they-searched-nearby-sectors-for-danger bit.
I can also forgive the what-about-all-this-other-blood question. After all it was specifically Kahn's blood that brought back the tribble, and there's no telling what else they might have done to boost him further after waking him up. Between that possibility and the others still being in stasis and thus maybe not all the way up to full potential I can see preferring Kahn's blood itself if you can get it.
This movie leaves me with three speculative questions/comments:
1) I love how much of a mindfuck this whole reboot has been to the main characters. Spock especially has really been put through a psychological grinder. I'm watching him every moment waiting for him to snap and go full berserker on everyone. Speaking of which, how long until Pon Farr and are there eligible single Vulcan gals left? They're probably all busy already having babies as quickly as possible to repopulate. That would be the logical thing to do.
2) With as horrific as recent history has been in this timeline and with all the best ships and crews of Starfleet slaughtered in the first movie, why are they sending off Earth's only powerful defense on a five year mission to deep space? These guys are so determined to be naively optimistic in the face of a brutal universe that it's almost charming.
3) This movie gives me even more hope for Star Wars excellence. A director with a body count in the many billions in this reboot won't be afraid to tell Lucas to go fuck himself if he balks at some lovable scoundrel shooting first. Whatever else he is, JJ Abrams is clearly a genius when it comes to how characters tick, and won't put up with any pretend-the-actors-are-a-type-of-prop crap from Lucas.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Quinto isn't as subtle.
The character isn't as subtle. He's a good fifteen years younger, thrust into situations he is not at all qualified for in traditional terms before Starfleet was gutted, and has had almost everyone he cares about ripped away except for this crew. IMO less subtle is appropriate.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I'm really enjoying Uhura as a bad ass. No universal translator being invented yet - either because of timeline changes or because we're about fifteen years ahead of where we should be in the timeline - gives her a chance to be more than just the girl answering the telephone. It's nice.
McCoy is perfect McCoy, oldest of the group and still already crotchety as hell as a younger man. Sulu is really stepping up when it matters. Scotty is brilliant as usual. Chekov - the youngest of the bunch at barely 18 - is just the right balance of eager yet inexperienced. Really, all the main characters have been so well cast, written, and portrayed that ... I don't know, it's just so right.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
And a third post. But I just posted this to another discussion board elsewhere where the general view is that this was a pretty stupid movie and that no real Trekkie could like it. It seemed like something I should share here to help explain why I love this reboot so very much. I sort of touch on the basic concept above, but here it is spelled out more clearly.
Some people just want to watch the world burn. I'm one of those people. And this world is on fire like no other major franchise has ever been before.
Edited By TPRJones on 1369443188
I'm someone you could likely classify as a "hardcore Trekie" and I loved this movie. But I've been seeing this reboot in a completely different way from how everyone else seems to.
This is not the same universe at all anymore. Recent events in this timeline have been downright brutal, with billions of people killed off. Starfleet was gutted in the first movie so badly that the only people left to fly one of the last ships to go out and deal with the problem were a bunch of half-trained academy students. And the fact that they are still on the Enterprise after the first movie can only be because there is literally no one more experienced left alive to put in there. These characters have rapidly had to go from a happy utopian world to end-of-the-world survival mode and it just keeps coming at them. They're all fifteen years too young for what they are doing. They're all fifteen years short of training and experience for the positions they've been thrust into. And they're all coping with it rather badly.
Of course this Spock is less subtle. He's lost everyone he cares about outside this crew and this reboot has been a vicious psychological mindfuck for him. Kirk is not just more reckless because he's younger, he's more reckless because this version didn't have the supportive and nurturing Starfleet officer father the original did and he hasn't had ANY experience in Starfleet before this madness began. Chekov is barely 18 for god's sake, so of course he's hopelessly inexperienced and doesn't even know enough to be aware that he's so far in over his head. I have no idea why Scottie seems to be in love with an oyster.
The point is this is very much the "gritty" reboot of Star Trek. Not just in terms of visual style and whatnot but in terms of story and character arc. This is the complete destruction of the utopian vision of Gene Roddenberry and it's starting to border on a psychological thriller as we watch these characters unravel. In any other sci fi show when the timeline gets this fucked the focus becomes going back to set things right, but we aren't doing that here which is unusual and interesting.
I also enjoy all the callbacks and references, not just in the "I know what that is" sense but because in almost every case they've been subverted and changed in subtle or not-so-subtle ways due to the messed up timeline. The universe seems to keep trying to push the same people back together as they were in the original timeline and it just keeps going slightly wrong, like the character's lives are caught in some sort of grotesque fun-house mirror. I like that.
Anyway, I'm sure many people will disagree with this outlook but it sure makes the movies much more enjoyable.
Some people just want to watch the world burn. I'm one of those people. And this world is on fire like no other major franchise has ever been before.
Edited By TPRJones on 1369443188
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
I have a love/hate relationship with this film.
It's excellent, but it's an excellent re-imagining of an excellent movie.
I love it for everything it is: A love story to the original film.
I hate it because it's so good that I'm worried people will overlook the original film, and that would be a shame.
It's like remaking The Godfather.
It's excellent, but it's an excellent re-imagining of an excellent movie.
I love it for everything it is: A love story to the original film.
I hate it because it's so good that I'm worried people will overlook the original film, and that would be a shame.
It's like remaking The Godfather.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I like that. I also keep forgetting that this is about 10 years before the episodes of TOS started, so the characters are even fresher than they were at *our* beginning. I remember the scene from the TOS pilot when Spock touched the leaves of some alien plant and smiles. So, ok. Younger Spock that isn't subtle.TPRJones wrote:The character isn't as subtle. He's a good fifteen years younger, thrust into situations he is not at all qualified for in traditional terms before Starfleet was gutted, and has had almost everyone he cares about ripped away except for this crew. IMO less subtle is appropriate.Quinto isn't as subtle.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Possibly, although I got the impression that she had been sick awhile and I doubt he'd have been willing to wait very long while the father was slowly made ready to deal. He would probably have found another quicker way.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
I had the impression it was a long illness too, but there's really no reason to think that. The parents look weary but hell, they could get that way in just a couple weeks of no sleep and terror for the health of a child.
I think Khan did it, and was waiting for the last minute to swoop in.
I think Khan did it, and was waiting for the last minute to swoop in.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Late game ponder:
Khan attacked Kirk on the bridge of the Vengeance........ AFTER Kirk gave Scotty the signal to shoot and stun Khan after the bridge was secure.
Would Khan have attacked if Kirk hadn't stabbed him in the back?
Edited By GORDON on 1370647093
Khan attacked Kirk on the bridge of the Vengeance........ AFTER Kirk gave Scotty the signal to shoot and stun Khan after the bridge was secure.
Would Khan have attacked if Kirk hadn't stabbed him in the back?
Edited By GORDON on 1370647093
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Would Khan have attacked if Kirk hadn't stabbed him in the back?
Attacked then? No.
However, it was made quite clear that he didn't give a shit about Kirk and WAS going to kill him and his crew eventually.
Also, are you seriously arguing that Greedo should have shot first?
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
No, i had just been getting a vibe of.... huh, different circumstances, and wouldnt it be interesting if kirk and khan ended up as buddies, or at least shared a grudging respect.
I think khan would have let the crippled enterprise go.... but woke up his peeps on the Vengeance and proceeded to conquer the galaxy.
I think khan would have let the crippled enterprise go.... but woke up his peeps on the Vengeance and proceeded to conquer the galaxy.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
and wouldnt it be interesting if kirk and khan ended up as buddies
No. Ever hear of the scorpion and the frog?
I think khan would have let the crippled enterprise go.... but woke up his peeps on the Vengeance and proceeded to conquer the galaxy.
Khan wasn't just super strong, he was also super intelligent. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise would need to be destroyed.
Remember, he attacked a room full of captains to cripple the fleet.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
In Space Seed, it was established that Khan was not really brutal as a dictator. I can't remember the exact conversation, at the moment. He seemed to admire Kirk as a worthy opponent, saying, "Excellent" whenever Kirk figured something else about his hidden past.
I dunno. Maybe superior abilities also breed superior... respect. I dunno.
I dunno. Maybe superior abilities also breed superior... respect. I dunno.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Predators have respect. They just also have the quick shortcut to brutality most of us only wish we could take.
EDIT: "... but like a poor marksman you just keep missing the target.
...
I've done something worse than kill you. I've wounded you."
Brutal != fatal.
Edited By Malcolm on 1370676415
EDIT: "... but like a poor marksman you just keep missing the target.
...
I've done something worse than kill you. I've wounded you."
Brutal != fatal.
Edited By Malcolm on 1370676415
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."