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I'm no historian, but:

Did we just go kill Indians and then abandon the land? I thought we were killing them because we wanted to use it. Plus, we would have been cutting more trees down to build more buildings. My impression of history doesn't fit with what they are saying. We just came over here, killed them all and left letting mother nature have everything to grow trees on it?

Cakedaddy wrote: I'm no historian, but:

Did we just go kill Indians and then abandon the land? I thought we were killing them because we wanted to use it. Plus, we would have been cutting more trees down to build more buildings. My impression of history doesn't fit with what they are saying. We just came over here, killed them all and left letting mother nature have everything to grow trees on it?

We killed a lot through communicable diseases, so our death preceded us, leading to lots of fallow lands for a while.

This would have likely been in south and central America with Spain killing off the natives in that part. I find this study suspect. Without modern tools... even modern for their day... the natives weren't farming large swaths of land. They didn't have horses or mules. I don't know if you can get a llama to pull a plow.

Do put up the graphic showing agreement on the "why" and "is it normal".

We are talking 1.5 degrees over 100+ years? Holy shit, it's out of control!

Yeah, I'd like to see this chart over 500 years. Using consistent data. None of this extrapolated data compared to actual measurements.

Hawaii leading the nation in "progressive" laws.

It's a bullshit headline. Hawaii simply passed a law banning a sunscreen harmful to coral reefs (good!), accepted the Paris trade agreement (completely toothless and meaningless except as a political "ra-ra"), and wants to be 100% renewable energy by 2045 (good, but how?).

The interesting law to me is them raising the smoking age to 21. (and this is totally off the topic of the thread, but deserves to be discussed)

-In Hawaii, you're old enough to have sex at 16 and possibly alter your life forever by getting knocked up or a deadly STD.
-In Hawaii, at 18 you're old enough to vote and alter the course of your life and the lives of those around you by choosing leaders or policy.
-In Hawaii, you're old enough to go die in war at 18.

But you'd better not have a cigarette!!!!

Oh, and Hawaii has such a massive meth problem that they preempted all networks one night just to air a special on addiction and meth.

Leisher wrote: and wants to be 100% renewable energy by 2045 (good, but how?).

I dont think it'd be that hard to be solar + wind in Hawaii. Like a lot of island, they primarily use oil for electricity which is expensive as hell. So solar + wind don't even have to be that good to be competitive there.

TheCatt wrote:

Leisher wrote: and wants to be 100% renewable energy by 2045 (good, but how?).

I dont think it'd be that hard to be solar + wind in Hawaii. Like a lot of island, they primarily use oil for electricity which is expensive as hell. So solar + wind don't even have to be that good to be competitive there.

Agree, but like a lot of these official proclamations, they don't get into specifics. I want details.

Details of the "New Green Deal" are emerging.

a government-led overhaul of virtually every aspect of American life that would guarantee a host of taxpayer-covered benefits for all and phase out fossil fuels.

Along the way, her office says the plan would aim to make air travel obsolete, upgrade or replace every building in America to ensure energy efficiency and give economic security even to those "unwilling" to work.

Now that's a FOX link, so maybe it's being unfair?

Here's MSN pointing out her contradicting herself in two interviews.

And here's their take on her plan:

that promises to render air travel obsolete, get rid of gaseous cows and ensure economic security for everyone in less than a decade

CNN reports that Pelosi is "throwing shade" at this dipshit and calls her plan "the green dream".

TheCatt wrote:

Leisher wrote: and wants to be 100% renewable energy by 2045 (good, but how?).

I dont think it'd be that hard to be solar + wind in Hawaii. Like a lot of island, they primarily use oil for electricity which is expensive as hell. So solar + wind don't even have to be that good to be competitive there.

Something that was brought up with the green deal that is being discussed and has been endorsed by every Democrat that's announced for the 2020 election... To produce enough wind and solar for the entire country you'd have to use all the land of California to do it (at least that much land). Hawaii might be more doable because they have a lot of mountain terrain that isn't usable for anything else. Not sure how the environmentalists are going to react to seeing so much deforestation.

Vince wrote: To produce enough wind and solar for the entire country you'd have to use all the land of California to do it (at least that much land).

Been to the fly over states?

TheCatt wrote:

Vince wrote: To produce enough wind and solar for the entire country you'd have to use all the land of California to do it (at least that much land).

Been to the fly over states?

Right? That land isn't being used for anything!

West texas, for example. Whole lot of nothing

Spent some time there. There isn't a ton. I wonder if the weather isn't good enough though. Lots of storms and tornadoes.

A lot of cattle in that area too, but I have to think cattle and solar panels/wind turbines wouldn't be in one another's way.

Republicans play politics in environmental hearing.

Dicks, but quick question, where the fuck were the Dems?

Leisher wrote: Republicans play politics in environmental hearing.

Dicks, but quick question, where the fuck were the Dems?

Hiding in the cloak room desperately avoiding a hearing that would produce multiple Twitter memes about the GND.

Some fish populations are shrinking.

If we're being honest, as a planet we've already been over fishing for decades.