Will there be a car bailout before bankruptcy?

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:21 pm

I hate Congress.

Post by **TPRJones** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:48 pm

I'm hoping not. It's pretty clear that most everyone in the country outside of Detroit hates the idea. I'm - perhaps foolishly - hoping that our representatives in Congress will actually, you know, represent us for once.

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:54 pm

I'm hoping not, but I'll put money on it.

Post by **thibodeaux** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:59 pm

No Congressman can resist the power of the Dark Side.

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:01 pm

I contacted both of my senators to let them know my feelings.

My company's going under, where's our bailout? And hell, we were profitable. GM hasn't been able to say that since 2004. And you can't tell me the economy was in the shitter in 2005, 2006, or 2007.

Edited By TheCatt on 1229040079

Post by **thibodeaux** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:09 pm

"There's a great deal of ruin in a nation."

Our government seems hell-bent to find out just how much.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:10 pm

Much as I don't want it to happen, it'll probably occur.

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:24 pm

I will agree to a bailout on one term:

Every Congressperson that votes for it put up 100% of their assets into the bailout fund.

Post by **thibodeaux** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:23 pm

Those days are long gone, I'm afraid:

"We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:37 pm

Senators voted down a bill to rescue of Detroit automakers after a last-ditch attempt to renegotiate the deal died.

The bill failed in the Senate by a 52-35 vote, despite it's earlier passage in the House of Representatives and its endorsement by the White House.

Article

Of course... there's still time for a new bill, or something.

Post by **TheCatt** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:38 pm

Stock market is down 4-5% in futures trading (ie what price it will open at in the morning)

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:11 am

What a pile of bullshit.

The proposal to loan $14 billion to Detroit's struggling automakers collapsed late Thursday night but the Big Three may get some money anyway.

Bush officials warned wavering GOP senators that if they didn't support the legislation, the White House will likely be forced to tap the Wall Street bailout to lend them money, two Republican congressional officials told CNN earlier.

This is a noteworthy change since the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson have previously refused to use bank bailout funds to help General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC.

The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivities of private conversations.

The White House negotiated a deal with Democrats to give Detroit a short term $14 billion loan with strings attached, including a so-called "car czar" charged with helping the companies draw up restructuring plans.

Most Senate Republicans opposed the plan as too weak in terms of focusing long-term viability for the U.S. auto industry.

As part of their full-court press to urge skeptical Republicans to back it, they made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), according to the sources familiar with the conversations.

"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now use consider using the TARP money," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., after the vote.

One of the sources said the a White House official made clear to a GOP Senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:11 am

Article

WSGrundy · Post by **WSGrundy** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:14 am

The sad part is those 35 that voted no are just waiting for their rider to get attached to the bill.

Mommy Dearest · Post by **Mommy Dearest** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:56 am

TheCatt wrote:What a pile of bullshit.
The proposal to loan $14 billion to Detroit's struggling automakers collapsed late Thursday night but the Big Three may get some money anyway.

Bush officials warned wavering GOP senators that if they didn't support the legislation, the White House will likely be forced to tap the Wall Street bailout to lend them money, two Republican congressional officials told CNN earlier.

This is a noteworthy change since the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson have previously refused to use bank bailout funds to help General Motors (GM, Fortune 500), Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC.

The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivities of private conversations.

The White House negotiated a deal with Democrats to give Detroit a short term $14 billion loan with strings attached, including a so-called "car czar" charged with helping the companies draw up restructuring plans.

Most Senate Republicans opposed the plan as too weak in terms of focusing long-term viability for the U.S. auto industry.

As part of their full-court press to urge skeptical Republicans to back it, they made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), according to the sources familiar with the conversations.

"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now use consider using the TARP money," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., after the vote.

One of the sources said the a White House official made clear to a GOP Senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.

Okay with me. Bail out the banks unconditionaly may as well bail out the automakers.

Post by **Cakedaddy** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:02 am

Detroit WILL be bailed out. WWWAAAYYYY too many union votes to lose. Democrats have been buying the union vote since. . . I have no idea when. But it's been a long time.

Letting them go down would hurt. A TON. But, then they can come back in a new, more efficiant form. It's not like GM would just disappear. It would be reborn as something different. Hell, maybe even something better. And then everyone goes back to work at fair rates and life moves on.

unkbill · Post by **unkbill** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:13 am

Ya unions bad. Same old story. Unions give up 40% of thier wages to save company. Execs are going for deferred payment of wages. Which mean they will recieve all thier pay. Lets get rid of unions and union contracts the CEOs will make sure the workers recieve fair pay. Bullshit. How many company execs will work without a contract. Come up with a better way than unions. And don't give me the crap about there are laws now. That is BS in the highest form. The trickle down effect doesn't work anymore. The only thing that trickles down is the cum down the workers leg after the company or exec fucks them.

Post by **TheCatt** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:33 am

The financial crisis wasn't about bailing out the banks, it was about making sure we didnt end up in the Great Depression 2.0.

The auto companies have a chance to simply reorganize under bankruptcy protection. That's what it's for. There will be some pain, but it won't be 3 million jobs or whatever bullshit they've been claiming.

unkbill · Post by **unkbill** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:53 am

TheCatt wrote:The financial crisis wasn't about bailing out the banks, it was about making sure we didnt end up in the Great Depression 2.0.

The auto companies have a chance to simply reorganize under bankruptcy protection. That's what it's for. There will be some pain, but it won't be 3 million jobs or whatever bullshit they've been claiming.

Well my thinking is that alot of people think it just might be 3 million out. Are there any good signs saying no? Well my house payment might ride on it. To me it is a 3 million job gamble I don't know if I am willing to take. And I don't really care if the unions have to take a 40% pay cut to make them stay afloat. I want the execs to do the same. No the rich keep their money while joe working man takes the hit.

Post by **TPRJones** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:12 am

unkbill wrote:...the CEOs will make sure the workers recieve fair pay...

Now you're just saying absurd bullshit and claiming that is what we are saying when we aren't.

The market will make sure workers receive fair pay. If the pay is not good enough, people will take other jobs, and that company will have to raise wages to attract workers until the wages are fair. This isn't the 1800s when people had to take whatever job they could because they had no mobility. It's time to join the 21st century already.