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TheCatt
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Postby TheCatt » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:45 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post northern Michigan is not suffering for a lack of wildlife. Just look at the side of the road Kid Rock.

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Postby GORDON » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:53 pm

IIRC, it takes about 200 years to go.from meadow to oaks. There's also a pine stage in between. They establish quicker, but the deciduous trees eventually edge them out

Of course, it depends on the region.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:07 pm

I think the harsher climate gives pines an edge up there. You can pretty much see the line between northern and southern MI because the trees change. All pines and ummm the white trees. Can't think of their name. Although our property has quite a few deciduous trees. No idea what kind. I don't know trees. I'm guessing when they cleared the lot for building, it created an open spot for the broad leaf trees to make it. Deeper into the woods, it's 80% pine.

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Postby GORDON » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:12 pm

I can't remember the correct terminology for this stuff... But the reason deciduous trees eventually edge out pines is because of the seeds. A pine seed has no... On board nutrients. It has to germinate in direct sunlight with no competition, or it won't grow. Which is why new pines in a pine Forest only grow when a mature tree falls over and makes room. An acorn (and similar) DOES have that nutrient built in. It can germinate in a harsher condition.... And once it gets going, it is shading out any new.pines.

More or less.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:17 pm

I was about to say "No. New pines grow in crowded spaces all the time." because we have a TON of 'baby pine trees' growing among fairly densely covered areas. However, then it occurred to me that it's all full size adult trees, and baby trees. There are no teenage trees. So I have to assume that a small one can grow, cause it doesn't need alot. But then it hits a point where it can't get enough to keep growing. Does it die? Or is it's growth stunted? I'll have to tag a bunch of small trees and keep a journal. It'll give me something to do while in Northern Michigan. :-)

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Postby GORDON » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:44 pm

I don't remember. Ecology was about 12 years ago. I think they just die, if they're shaded out. It's why you see a bunch of new trees shooting up in the sunny area when a big pine dies and falls over.

Also why in NC the loblolly pines don't have any lower branches. They get shaded out and fall off.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:58 pm

I think all pines shed their lower branches as they compete for height. I'm saying, there are saplings growing in covered areas. They are everywhere. Not just where others have fallen. I'll tell you in 5-7 years if they make it.

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Postby GORDON » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:10 am

Not the best source at 7am on my phone, but the lower branches get shaded out and die.

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/orname ... bottom.htm
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Postby Vince » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:14 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post How long is a cycle? It's been 3+ years in some sections and the lower vegetation has a strong strangling hold on every inch of ground. It's a chore to keep the trails open and the brush cut back. I don't see any trees growing out there. Will take decades for the random tree to break through and start stealing the sun from the underbrush.

Often my dad will buy a plot of timber land and clear it (provided it has old enough trees on it) and is usually able to pay for what he just bought doing that. In about 20 years, it starts looking like a wooded area again with a semi decent canopy. The trees won't be any bigger around than you arm, maybe. But it's a wooded area again by then.

Cakedaddy wrote:Also, northern Michigan is not suffering for a lack of wildlife. Just look at the side of the road.

That might be why they're doing that, if you have a deer on the highway issue. Deer kind of live between the forests and the fields. They take shelter in the woods, but the majority of their food is in fields or grassy areas. So they tend to live on that line between the woods and the cleared area. Areas that look a lot like where the highways runs through a wooded area. They might be trying to give them other areas in which to spread out.

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Postby Cakedaddy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:56 pm

So. . . I'll never ride through a wooded area on those trails again. Thanks global warming! Fucking sea turtles.

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Postby GORDON » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:52 pm

Driving through many of the pine forests of Eastern NC, if you look, you'll notice mile after mile of pine trees in perfect rows.

My ecology prof said they're on about their 10th planting, of those forests.

Loggers plant more trees than any other group. Snopes will probably say that's MOSTLY FALSE, so fuck it, just get all of your info from there or Catt.
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Postby TheCatt » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:03 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post just get all of your info from there or Catt.

I mean, Catt first... all other sources are secondary.

We have a lot of land around here that's logged professionally. Pines usually, I thought the cycle was only 15 or 20 years?
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TheCatt
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Postby TheCatt » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:31 am

GORDON wrote:Source of the post Because sea.life ingest plastics.

YouTube turtle straw nose

Google whale stomach plastic bags

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Postby GORDON » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:34 pm

Ha!
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TheCatt
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Postby TheCatt » Wed May 15, 2019 9:28 am

GORDON wrote:Source of the post Because sea.life ingest plastics.

YouTube turtle straw nose

Google whale stomach plastic bags

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Vince
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Postby Vince » Thu May 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Anyone else find it odd that the state that seems most concerned with plastic going into the ocean (CA) is also handing out a metric shit ton of clean plastic hypodermic needles and plungers to a group least likely to properly dispose of them. And those cities making the most use of said free needles are on the coast?

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Postby GORDON » Thu May 16, 2019 7:43 pm

"The American lifestyle is environmentally unsustainable.

So we must allow unfettered immigration so more people can live the American lifestyle."

~California
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TheCatt
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Postby TheCatt » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:46 am

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Postby Leisher » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:16 pm

Plastic pollution is fucking with seabirds.

This is one of the reasons I'm for eliminating bags and anything else. Yeah, the alternative might throw more CO2 in the air during creation (CO2 is NOT the biggest problem in the greenhouse effect despite what you hear), but plastic pollution is proving to be a massive issue down here on the ground and in the water.
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Postby Vince » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Lots of questions crop up for me reading this.


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