The First Trump term.

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Leisher
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The First Trump term.

Postby Leisher » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:20 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the postMost important thing about history is, "this shit WILL end, someday."

But whoever was right, in the end the mob always rules, and the mob is damned dumb.


I think your point went over my head.

TheCatt wrote:Source of the postUnderstanding them helps.


It really doesn't. I assure you that it we put the members of this board up against the Kardashian family in a battle of brains we would curb stomp them. They would then limp back to their multimillions...

Although, I do LOVE that my grocery store now has the per unit price info on their shelves. I know don't have to sit there and calculate which quantity is the better deal.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post But, you are absolutely using formulas and rules when cutting a pizza.


No you're not and if we can't agree here, we simply agree to disagree. Eyeballing something isn't geometry. And honestly, if someone needs geometry to work in a pizza shop, then I absolutely welcome the end of humanity because we don't deserve to survive.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post I don't remember where stats fit in.


Don't get me started on stats! :D

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Also:

Customer: How big is the large?
Me: **thinking they wanted to compare value, dollars/amount of pizza** 14 inches
Customer: No, I mean how many slices?
Me: *in my head* why is that relevant?

Had MANY conversations with people "There's more pizza in a large because there's more slices". *sigh* "So if I cut a medium into 8 slices like we do the large we'd have the same amount of pizza?" "No, because the large is bigger." "AHHAAA!!!" MATH!


The average IQ in the U.S. (and the world?) is 100. You're giving people WAY too much credit for their use of math in day to day life. Most people can't balance their checkbooks, and that's why the majority are in massive debt, but we're going to say they all use geometry or calculus actively, not passively, daily? Hogwash. (Holy fuck. When's the last time I used that word? Weird.)

I actually think a good math class past geometry would be along the lines of "Math Concepts". I think, if done correctly and applied to day to day life, could be far more valuable in getting people interested in math and having them retain the knowledge they learned. Then once they get to college, if needed/desired, they could get more into the actual learning of how to do that level of math.
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The First Trump term.

Postby GORDON » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:33 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post
GORDON wrote:Source of the postMost important thing about history is, "this shit WILL end, someday."

But whoever was right, in the end the mob always rules, and the mob is damned dumb.


I think your point went over my head.


I probably didn't express it well.

I meant that the best lesson to take from a history class is that nothing lasts forever. Every great empire, that those within thought would last forever, are gone. The Greek Empire lasted for 350 years, almost 20 generations, and still influences society to this day.

The Roman Empire lasted 500ish years (opinions vary... does it still exist through the Catholic Church?), 25 generations. Being in the middle of it, surely it was eternal.

But in the end great empires are always brought down by barbarians, an example would be when people figure out they can vote themselves free candy.

So even though people may be taught in school that western civilization is a fragile, ephemeral thing, it won't stop them when it comes time to say, "I want some stuff and I want that guy to pay for it."

I feel like I'm maybe still not making a good point.
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The First Trump term.

Postby TheCatt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:26 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post They would then limp back to their multimillions...

Sure, but there's a whole lot of variables there. Line us up against the 90% of people who do worse than this board.
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The First Trump term.

Postby TheCatt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:28 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post No you're not and if we can't agree here, we simply agree to disagree.

"Cut this into quarters" "What's a quarter?" MATH
Leisher wrote:Source of the post I actually think a good math class past geometry would be along the lines of "Math Concepts".

This was the required math class in college for people who were not going on to other maths.
Leisher wrote:Source of the post Hogwash

Cultural appropriator.
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The First Trump term.

Postby GORDON » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:05 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post
Leisher wrote:Source of the post No you're not and if we can't agree here, we simply agree to disagree.

"Cut this into quarters" "What's a quarter?" MATH


"We'll take them batteries! They’re worth what? A quarter mill on the open market?"
"That Priestess offered us a million! A quarter is only... one-third of that!"
"A quarter ain't a third."
"A quarter is twenty-five. We can't even buy a pair of boots with twenty-five units."
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Postby TheCatt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:24 pm

Americans think a 1/4 lb burger is larger than a 1/3rd pound burger: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/761 ... und-burger
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Postby GORDON » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:27 pm

We're surrounded by these people every day. I'm not sure to suggest to try and forget that, or to never forget that.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 pm

You can't be in ANY trade (electrical, construction, plumber, etc) without knowing math. And being good at it. Strip off all the drywall in your house (or any building) and look at all the math written in random places on the wood beneath. And there are a LOT of people in the trades. Just because you sit behind a desk and delegate the hard stuff to other people doesn't mean everyone does!

Leisher wrote:Source of the post Eyeballing something isn't geometry.


Why not? Because they didn't prove the theorems they used? They still applied basic principles whether you like it or not. You could argue that eyeballing something is poor geometry, because it's probably going to be off. But it's still geometry.


Leisher wrote:Source of the post And honestly, if someone needs geometry to work in a pizza shop, then I absolutely welcome the end of humanity because we don't deserve to survive.


Why? You REALLY hate math, don't you!

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Postby GORDON » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:58 am

A little kid once asked me if math was important in computer programming. Without getting into stuff like computer graphics in which YES... (accounting programming is mostly PEMDAS you learn by 6th grade)... I told him the importance of learning math is so you can train your brain to think logically.

Peeps use math a lot... or they should. Calculating how much gas their car needs do drive to Cedar Point and back. How much of a tip to leave the pizza guy. How many nights they can use 3 condoms a night, before they need a new box. All that stuff is algebra.
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Postby TheCatt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:05 am

Leisher wrote:Source of the post And before you get smart assed about it, cutting a pizza doesn't count.


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Postby Leisher » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:30 am

GORDON wrote:Source of the post I meant that the best lesson to take from a history class is that nothing lasts forever.


Well, we both know hearts can change.

GORDON wrote:Source of the post I feel like I'm maybe still not making a good point.


It's a bit scattered, but I know what you're getting at, and you're not wrong. And here's the thing, I think that point is FAR more important to humanity than whether or not someone understands unit pricing.

Look around at the youth of our country. Never before have we been as educated as we are now, yet we're falling down the rankings when compared to other countries, and there's a socialist movement gaining lots of steam because nobody seems to have been taught or remember the socialism examples from the past. Hell, these fucking morons are so checked out they can't even see how socialism ripped apart Venezuela or how Democratic socialism is tearing apart Europe, particularly culturally.

So hooray that a secretary up to her fucking eyeballs in life crippling debt, thanks to college, can cut a pizza better than whatever monkey cut the one in Catt's pictures, but she's also a Democratic Socialist. She also believes in 47 genders and that sporting competition between two women, even though one of them was born a man, is completely fair.

One of you wrote something about math teaching people to think critically or logically, but I can't find it. Anyway, math all by itself isn't doing that. My example about the secretary is 100% legit and seems to be the norm these days. People need context. History provides that.

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post Sure, but there's a whole lot of variables there.


Is that some kind of joke about the large number of black men those women have slept with? Racist.

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post This was the required math class in college for people who were not going on to other maths.


I took something in this realm prior to college algebra and then calc. However, it wasn't a well taught class and it assumed too much. I would want my proposed class to teach how math applies to one's day to day life, which would then take you into the lesson on how to do the actual calculations.

And this is definitely a topic for another thread, but I think the entire education system needs to immediately end all standardized testing, drop common core, and establish a guideline of topics every school and class are expected to cover during a grade/school year. Then let the teachers teach.

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post "Cut this into quarters" "What's a quarter?" MATH


TheCatt wrote:Source of the post Americans think a 1/4 lb burger is larger than a 1/3rd pound burger:


GORDON wrote:Source of the post All that stuff is algebra.


Reminder: My line was clearly set post algebra, but I wasn't sure where to draw it post algebra. So none of this applies to my point.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post You can't be in ANY trade (electrical, construction, plumber, etc) without knowing math. And being good at it.


For example: Cake is completely off point here and implying I'm 100% anti-math, which isn't even remotely my position.

I can't discuss the issue when you take a statement like "Most people don't need calc" and turn it into "Leisher thinks people don't need to be able to add!"

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post And there are a LOT of people in the trades.


Not as many as there used to be...

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Just because you sit behind a desk and delegate the hard stuff to other people doesn't mean everyone does!


I don't even know what the fuck this means. I've been on both sides of the desk. There's hard stuff on both sides. It might suck pulling cable while lying in dirt under a trailer, but it also sucks trying to get vendors to reply to emails in a timely fashion or not invoice you 7 months after work was completed! :D

By the way, a large portion of my friend group are tradespeople, and none of them are solving the Navier-Stokes equation.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post They still applied basic principles whether you like it or not. You could argue that eyeballing something is poor geometry, because it's probably going to be off. But it's still geometry.


No, by all means, instead of teaching the natural concepts they didn't need a class to use, let's instead stick them into an expensive class and cripple them with debt and really break the subject down in ways they'll never approach again. Genius!

Point being, this goes to prove the Math Concepts class I discussed would be a far more effective way to teach the majority of people whose needed math could end there.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Why? You REALLY hate math, don't you!


Math is everything. I don't hate math. I use it everyday. I hate our education system wasting time and money teaching levels of math that won't be retained or used by most people.
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Postby TheCatt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 am

Leisher wrote:Source of the post we both know hearts can change.

In the cold November rain?
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Postby Leisher » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:44 am

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post
Leisher wrote:Source of the post we both know hearts can change.

In the cold November rain?


Winner winner, chicken dinner!
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Postby Leisher » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:09 pm

Senate acts to reduce Trumps power to go to war with Iran.

Good timing on this now that we're weeks away from it.

Although, I chuckled thinking that Trump will react by declaring war on Mexico.
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Postby GORDON » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:43 pm

wow just in the nick of time
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Postby Cakedaddy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:52 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post My example about the secretary is 100% legit and seems to be the norm these days. People need context. History provides that.


She was exposed to history. Hell, Venezuela is now. And yet, she still thinks that way. All the history lessons (or current events) in the world won't change her. She's just that stupid.

Leisher wrote:Source of the post Not as many as there used to be...


I know. I'm training new ones and paying a lot for the experienced ones. But still a lot.

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Postby Cakedaddy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:19 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post Cake is completely off point here and implying I'm 100% anti-math, which isn't even remotely my position.


You wanted society to end if someone needed Geometry!!

Leisher wrote:Source of the post none of them are solving the Navier-Stokes equation.


But they are using Geometry every day.

You argued math should end at Algebra. I proposed Geometry. I use principles I learned in Geometry CONSTANTLY. At work, in my hobbies, and just in general. Knowing that going from Secor Rd and Temperance Rd to Jackman and Stearns with either:
1. Secor to Sterns, Sterns to Jackman
2. Secor to Dean to Douglas to Sterns to Jackman
Is the same distance. You learned that in Geometry. MANY people can look at that and it's obvious to them. Many people don't until they are taught it in Geometry class. And even if you know it without the class, it's still Geometry. You may not know what Theorem proves they are the same, but you are still using Geometry. I work with a LOT of people that don't know simple relationships between parallel lines, equal angles, etc. They also suck at Algebra.

Your "Math concepts and how they apply to everyday life" sounds a lot like common core math. When they explain it, it's like "Ya, that IS how I do math in my head". But I'm betting it translates HORRIBLY to advanced math. "This is how you cut a pizza. Don't worry about the math behind it." I dunno.

Leisher wrote:Source of the post It might suck pulling cable while lying in dirt under a trailer, but it also sucks trying to get vendors to reply to emails in a timely fashion or not invoice you 7 months after work was completed!


If I get my invoices to you faster, will YOU go under the trailer? Didn't think so. Mine's harder. :-) There's a great The Office reference I want to make here, but can't find a good video to put it in context.

Leisher wrote:Source of the post let's instead stick them into an expensive class and cripple them with debt


It's not my fault colleges make you retake classes you took in high school. But you SHOULD take it at least once. Again, up to Geometry. A college requiring Manager Calc or whatever they call it is a money grab. Which about 40% of the classes in any degree are.

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The First Trump term.

Postby Cakedaddy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:25 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post not a lot of people use anything more than basic algebra.


I think this is where you drew your line. I've been arguing it should be up through Geometry. You argue 'not a lot of people use it'. I strongly disagree and say a lot of people DO use it. I would want to know your definition of basic Algebra too. But you don't have to go into it. I would only need to know if we were actually voting on it.

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The First Trump term.

Postby TheCatt » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:15 am

If Trump hates Huawei, and Pelosi hates Huawei... how am I supposed to feel about it?
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The First Trump term.

Postby GORDON » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:16 am

Only one of them sanctioned China.
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