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The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:42 pm
by Troy
Leisher wrote:
Troy wrote: It's just a dumb deflection. We're talking about treason(with our greatest geo-political rival) and they're deflecting with bad IT security. I just don't care enough about it to spend any time on it.
I said Fox was stupid.

My question is why you always laugh at the topic and talk about how it doesn't matter. You did that before Trump was even elected.

P.S. Taking millions from foreign donors to help you get elected isn't treason? Getting Americans killed isn't treason? How about the murder of American citizens without a trial? (That's one even CNN wouldn't shut up about until they realized nobody gives a fuck.)
Fine, I'll rabbit hole with you. Let's see some legit, unbiased documentation of those things.

You can skip the last two. I think those are directed at Obama, and that's part of being a President. I don't criticize Trump for the poorly planned raid earlier this year that got a SEAL killed. Or any President past and future whose decisions lead to citizens dying abroad while fighting terrorism, participating in it, or even working in dangerous places. I guess I'm on my own here. Presidents make hard decisions based on incomplete intel and get criticized for it by people who pretend they knew the facts at hand. Dots are easy to connect going backwards because there is already a line through them.

I understand this may be a surprise based on some of my other political views. It's why I consider myself a centrist. Also why I was so disappointed that someone I trust with that kind of leeway turned out to be such a huge buffoon. At least he's surrounded himself with smart people like Mattis in those areas.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:06 pm
by Leisher
I shouldn't need to provide you with "legit, unbiased" documentation on stories that were national headlines reported by all MSM outlets. But whatever...

Put a pin in this until tomorrow. I've got to run to a luau.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:24 pm
by Troy
Leisher wrote: I shouldn't need to provide you with "legit, unbiased" documentation on stories that were national headlines reported by all MSM outlets. But whatever...

Put a pin in this until tomorrow. I've got to run to a luau.
Totally game. To be more clear, the treason I was referring to was the many questions and answers about Mike Flynn in the hearing today. Much of the hearing today was very much a warning that Russia meddled in this election, elections in other countries, and there is a clear danger that they will continue to do so in the future.

Comey obviously had more to say about Flynn's work for foreign powers but could only promise to do so in the closed session that followed to the Senators. I stated earlier that I didn't think anything in the hearing moved the needle much from Trump's perspective. I don't think obstruction of justice itself is enough to get impeached, nor is it treason.

If you have credible links that implicate Clinton or Obama administrations of treason, I do want to see them. I guess you are suggesting you actually have links that implicate Clinton/Obama directly to treason, so by all means I want to see that too.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:41 am
by Vince
Troy wrote: It's just a dumb deflection. We're talking about treason(with our greatest geo-political rival) and they're deflecting with bad IT security. I just don't care enough about it to spend any time on it.
I think it is deflection, but I also think it's very demonstrative of the media's bias. At this point there is more evidence that Loretta Lynch improperly interfered with the Clinton investigation than there is that Trump colluded with the Russians (and by Trump I mean Trump and by Lynch I mean Lynch). But they don't want to touch that at all.

Watching some of the hearings yesterday, I think Rubio did a good job. I don't think anyone came out looking good, but think Trump looked least bad. Testimony came out that Trump lied about something. Did he lie about anything consequential? Not really. He wasn't lying about the big stuff. And he was telling the truth when he said he was told three times that he was not personally under investigation. This is where the press is shooting themselves. They have been pounding every little thing since the election so hard that it all seems like noise now. People that hate Trump found things to pin on him. People that love Trump found things to pin on other people. I think people like me that didn't vote for either major candidate think these hearings were not a big deal as far as damaging Trump. "Full of sound and fury / signifying nothing". The press is being damaged more at this point. We all know that Trump is only loosely acquainted with the truth. Not a big revelation. Did he lie about the stuff the press has been implying he's been lying about since they started the Comey countdown clock?

Interesting side note is that CNN is absolutely tanking in the ratings. MSNBC has been doing decent since the election. Fox (for now) has been so pro Trump they are worthless. CNN has been so anti-Trump, they are even more worthless. While MSNBC isn't in Trump's camp, they are talking about (progressive) principles. Standing for something will win out over standing against something almost every time.

And for all the media gnashing of teeth about possible Russian interference in our election, they seemed much less concerned with foreign election interference when it was Obama's State Department dumping money in an organization that was trying to defeat Benjamin Netanyahu.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:18 am
by Troy
Vince wrote: Interesting side note is that CNN is absolutely tanking in the ratings. MSNBC has been doing decent since the election. Fox (for now) has been so pro Trump they are worthless. CNN has been so anti-Trump, they are even more worthless. While MSNBC isn't in Trump's camp, they are talking about (progressive) principles. Standing for something will win out over standing against something almost every time..
I believe this. The news(broadly) has been horrible, unwatchable, for months now.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:53 am
by Leisher
Let me start my response with an opening statement:

ALL of my frustration with the current state of politics is about pride. Hopefully that's the right word to use here.

People are blindly defending or attacking based on their chosen letter being "the best" instead of really educating themselves about candidates, issues, etc. and they aren't questioning the motives or ridiculous bias of MSM coverage as long as it fits their beliefs. (The minute someone utters: "Faux News", I know they're an uninformed moron.) They just cannot allow themselves to possibly be wrong. Not even on a single fucking issue!

The constant finger pointing while their candidates do the exact same things or worse is maddening. Somewhere the focus was lost from "Go USA" to "Go my party" and it's shit.

I guess I'm just feed up with people regurgitating sound bites and truly believing other people are morons simply for having a differing opinion.

We've hit a point where the losing candidate of an election publicly formed a "resistance". WTF is that? She has every right to do that, but honestly, how can any sane person justify it? "Our side didn't win, so we will fight you with everything we've got to ensure you get nothing done" is helpful to the country in what way? How does that make your children's future brighter? How is this right, but "The party of 'no'" was wrong?

What the fuck ever happened to working together through compromise?

Alright, I feel like I'm thisclose to rambling and I know I could talk on this point all day, so let me move on...
Much of the hearing today was very much a warning that Russia meddled in this election, elections in other countries, and there is a clear danger that they will continue to do so in the future.
This is not shocking in the least. We've been doing this forever, and so have most powerful nations. Hell, our own MSM has meddled in elections and nobody seems to care about that. They won Bill Clinton the presidency. Ditto for Obama. They constantly attack the GOP or anyone else that isn't a card carrying Democrat, while ignoring or defending the flubs of those same Dems.

Why aren't we having hearings about that?

Remember a few months back how it was discovered that the White House was actively spying on people in Trump's camp during the campaign? (That's not fake news, they even admitted it happened, but maintained it wasn't done due to the election.) Weird how doing something really, really similar brought down Nixon, but this incident has been forgotten because "fake news". Shouldn't there have been an investigation at the very least?

Perhaps if people are voting based on "fake news" we should change our requirements for voting? Or would that be racist? Or elitist? Or ageist?
To be more clear, the treason I was referring to was the many questions and answers about Mike Flynn in the hearing today. Comey obviously had more to say about Flynn's work for foreign powers but could only promise to do so in the closed session that followed to the Senators. I stated earlier that I didn't think anything in the hearing moved the needle much from Trump's perspective. I don't think obstruction of justice itself is enough to get impeached, nor is it treason.
If someone worked with Russians to actually try and affect the election, they should be prosecuted. No doubt. Just like if someone illegally took millions from foreign donors they should also be prosecuted.

My biggest problem with this whole circus is we all know none of it is going to affect Trump. It's just a sideshow distracting us from the real issues.

I keep distracted here at work, so if this is all over the place I apologize.

Long story short: I'm tired of the double standard. My FB feed is full of it from both sides. It's infuriating. I want better from the folks here because I truly do believe the folks here are more open minded. (Plus, I won't lose friends or family because I think Trump's a loud mouth asshole or that "man made global warming" was changed to "climate change" because the science wasn't proving the former, but denying the later is like denying tomorrow it could be sunny or rain.) We should be able to sit and critically discuss the decisions on both sides not be caught in "my side is better" bullshit debates, but I feel, and I know Gordon is in this same boat, I'm in this never ending battle against bias.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:03 am
by Leisher
BTW, back to what I referenced earlier, Bill did take illegal donations from foreign donors, although they tried washing a lot of them through the Clinton Foundation. Hillary was doing the same. Highly illegal, but nobody gives a shit apparently.

Also, Obama was the one who gave the order to kill an American citizen with a drone strike. I had no issue with it and agreed with the move because the guy was a scumbag terrorist, but technically it probably was illegal? I do know if Bush had done that, the MSM would never have let it die.

I don't know. We should NOT live in a world where a fucking election official can believe if too many people live on one side of an island it'll tip over. What's worse is after that she was re-elected and continues to be quoted as if her opinions should still carry weight.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:23 pm
by Malcolm
Are you shitting me?
A rabid Dumb-ass Drumpf on Friday accused former FBI director James B. Comey of committing perjury in his blockbuster Senate testimony and said he was willing to share his version of events under oath with the special counsel overseeing the expanding Russia investigation.
This ought to be good. I'm betting one of those two dudes keeps way, way, way better notes and proof of what he did, said, and heard.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:04 am
by Leisher
I'm betting one of those two dudes keeps way, way, way better notes and proof of what he did, said, and heard.
The guy who said, "I hope there are tapes"?

The First Trump term.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:21 am
by Vince
Leisher wrote:
I'm betting one of those two dudes keeps way, way, way better notes and proof of what he did, said, and heard.
The guy who said, "I hope there are tapes"?
There have been a couple of reporters that covered him as a real estate celebrity that said it wasn't unusual for him to call them up saying they'd misquoted him and that he'd recorded the conversation. He never produced a recording to correct the supposed error. I suspect nothing will come of the congressional request for those tapes if they exist.

I was curious as to why Comey thought he needed to make notes from conversations with Trump because he was afraid he'd lie but not Clinton on the email scandal even after she'd demonstrated her ability to lie about that publicly. I think all this arguing if Comey is out to help Democrats or Republicans is kind of dumb. Seemed to me even back in the election that Comey was looking out for Comey.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:46 pm
by GORDON
Could be a case of a really honest man unexpectedly thrown into a situation where everyone lies, all the time time?

The First Trump term.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:06 pm
by Malcolm
Honest people don't go into government work.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:26 am
by Leisher
More entertainment people want to mock kill Trump.

Seriously, did they not just see what happened to Kathy Griffin?

Imagine if this was a play with Obama as Julius Caesar...

The First Trump term.

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:47 am
by Vince
Leisher wrote: More entertainment people want to mock kill Trump.

Seriously, did they not just see what happened to Kathy Griffin?

Imagine if this was a play with Obama as Julius Caesar...
They did. Though in light of the Kathy Griffin thing, this seemed ill advised.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:42 pm
by Leisher
Vince wrote:
Leisher wrote: More entertainment people want to mock kill Trump.

Seriously, did they not just see what happened to Kathy Griffin?

Imagine if this was a play with Obama as Julius Caesar...
They did. Though in light of the Kathy Griffin thing, this seemed ill advised.
Interesting. Did they kill him or does he survive? Scanning the article I didn't see his fate. Also interesting that they surround him with Republicans. I would have to see the plots of each play to compare them equally. It's easy to have Obama be betrayed by scumbags and Trump killed by heroes, yet be the same play.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:35 pm
by Vince
Heh... I think if they changed the Julius Caesar play to the point that he wasn't killed, that would be the bigger outrage.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:23 pm
by Malcolm
Totally unfounded.
The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether Dickhead Drumpf attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:51 pm
by GORDON
Holy shit, Putin actually has better perspective on American politics than the great majority of Americans do.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

Because he realizes it's a joke.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:16 pm
by Leisher
Trump's new wall plan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he stole this idea.

The First Trump term.

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:52 pm
by Leisher
Image

Why have I never seen that gif before, but I've seen Trump's hand get pushed away a billion times?