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GORDON wrote: Well shit, end of the world.

eye roll

Group of kids suing the U.S. government over climate change go to trial on Oct. 29th.

Apparently this sort of thing already happened in Columbia and they won.

Leisher wrote: Group of kids suing the U.S. government over climate change go to trial on Oct. 29th.

Apparently this sort of thing already happened in Columbia and they won.

Colombia.

Autocorrect...

Where did that animated graph come from?

Leisher wrote: Autocorrect...

Where did that animated graph come from?

Here:

So people don't trust official sources anymore because they lie a lot, are biased, and/or are constantly screaming about the sky is falling.

However, they are overwhelmingly in favor of doing stuff cleaner.

Good.

Speaking of the environment, this is infuriating. Oil spill has been going on since 2004.

Maybe move fixing this a bit up your "to do" list?

We've wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970.

I believe that. In our mad rush to stock store shelves and build bigger "whatever", we've killed everything in the way.

However, I know in the fishing industry they now practice very conservative measures, and populations are again on the rise. I also know that in...one of the South American countries...the public has forced the government to stop cutting down rain forests.

Nobody has to give up shit, we just need to take what we need, but leave enough so stuff doesn't get fucked up.

Leisher wrote: Speaking of the environment, this is infuriating. Oil spill has been going on since 2004.

Maybe move fixing this a bit up your "to do" list?

It looks bad, but I'd need more data. This is raw crude. It happens a lot in nature where shifts in the tectonic plates cause raw crude oil to spew into the ocean.

Leisher wrote: We've wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970.

...

However, I know in the fishing industry they now practice very conservative measures, and populations are again on the rise. I also know that in...one of the South American countries...the public has forced the government to stop cutting down rain forests.

Not sure how much stock I place in these numbers, either. I know about 4 years ago I saw an article that was explaining that we'd lost 50% of the diversity in the oceans. Not because of anything we did, but because we'd created a central computer database of all the ocean species and discovered a whole bunch of duplicates. Some were "discovered" up to eight different times and given different names. So how much of this drop is actually from more accurate methods of counting the population? Don't know if any of it is, but it's something I'd be curious about.

I know for instance, the deer and elk population has risen significantly over the last 50 years.

Some species we absolutely influence due to us being assholes: Most big game like "The 5" in Africa.

Some we influence by mistake: Introducing the Asian Carp to the Midwest.

Some we correct our mistakes and now the populations are booming: Many fish species we almost fished to extinction.

Nobody with an ounce of sense could argue that we don't have an overall negative effect on the animal kingdom, but there's no reason it can't become a net positive. It just takes a bit more effort than "kill and eat whatever we want".

And yes, deer populations are back so significantly that they've had to increase deer season in some states to help prevent their numbers from causing disease and starvation.

Leisher wrote:Nobody with an ounce of sense could argue that we don't have an overall negative effect on the animal kingdom, but there's no reason it can't become a net positive. It just takes a bit more effort than "kill and eat whatever we want".

Capitalism is the best cure for that. As with the above mentioned "African big 5", making poaching illegal and opening up these areas to controlled harvesting has provided an incentive for these countries to protect the animals and at the same time given them the capital to do so. Same with the fish. As species become more rare, the price will rise decreasing the demand. Just put rules in place to protect incidental catches.

While we should do all we can to minimize our impact, not all extinctions are the result of man.

The biggest problem continues to be Asia.

Shark fin, tiger penis, whale whatever, and so on are all highly desired in the Asian culture. Something needs to change there.

I feel like now that straws and plastic grocery bags have been banned a lot of places, I've done enough and no longer have to worry about Asia.

Because every little bit helps.

Leisher wrote: The biggest problem continues to be Asia.

Shark fin, tiger penis, whale whatever, and so on are all highly desired in the Asian culture. Something needs to change there.

Just saw that China is opening up the sale of Rhino horns and... something else. Maybe tusks. But voodoo magic animal parts.

Probably trumps fault, because of sanctions.

GORDON wrote: I feel like now that straws and plastic grocery bags have been banned a lot of places, I've done enough and no longer have to worry about Asia.

Because every little bit helps.

I'm not sure how straws and plastic bags equate to saving species from being hunted?

Every little bit does help, but I'm with you that until Asia, among others places, start actually doing something, our efforts are futile.

Vince wrote: Just saw that China is opening up the sale of Rhino horns and... something else. Maybe tusks. But voodoo magic animal parts.

Opening up? For fucks sake. It's bad enough they're still using banned substances, and now they want to ensure more poaching?

Trump could probably eliminate this with tariff negotiations, but I'm sure it's not on his radar.

Leisher wrote:

GORDON wrote: I feel like now that straws and plastic grocery bags have been banned a lot of places, I've done enough and no longer have to worry about Asia.

Because every little bit helps.

I'm not sure how straws and plastic bags equate to saving species from being hunted?

Every little bit does help, but I'm with you that until Asia, among others places, start actually doing something, our efforts are futile.

I was just being facetious, and using "every little bit helps" as a punchline.

Just like how Sauron twisted every good intention toward something evil, these little things... not even "half measures," are counterproductive without directly attacking the source of the problem. People think they're helping by using reusable grocery bags. They aren't. They become more complacent because now they think they're doing enough.

And the problem is, there's no solution except a few EMPs over Asia. There is literally no other realistic solution. Those governments aren't going to make the drastic changes needed and cause 2 billion of their citizens to rise up in anger.