Welcome to Thunderdome

Sure, it's the fault of the parents for raising the kids that way, but it's also the fault of government for reinforcing the bad behaviours and taking the sting out of any punishments that society and/or circumstances might have otherwise inflicted.

In short, if you don't let people make mistakes and deal with the consequences they'll never learn.

Dear Vince,

Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary.
The Pope is fallible.
Things change.

Get your head out of your ass and get over it. Stop being so fucking afraid.

Vince, you started by saying, "Gays can have a union, but don't call it marriage". Yet, everything you've said since then says you don't want that union to be recognized. I got the impression that you'd recognize the union, you just wanted it called "Banana Pie" (or whatever word they wanted I guess), instead of marriage. So, where exactly do you stand as far as the gay union thing?

Anyway, that's where I stand. However, your last statement gave me pause. They would then have equal standing when adopting kids. But then I thought, is it better for the kid to stay in foster care, or be raised by fags? Hmmm. Could go either way on that one.

Last time I checked, the national stats showed that the most likely kids to do drugs and commit crimes were raised by a single parent. I don't see national debates and news stories about stopping that behavior. In fact, being a single mother has become something of a badge of honor for some women.

I think we'd all agree that a child would be better off with a loving gay couple than they would be in the foster care system. But would the child be better off raised by a heterosexual couple or a gay couple? I would imagine that there has to be some impact on a child's development and sense of self being raised in a gay household. Not to mention normal sexual development when they hit puberty (and no, I in no way believe that a gay couple raising a child would in any way make the child gay).

Admittedly, I can see where a particularly militant homosexual couple might try to gay up the kids.

Admittedly, I can see where a particularly militant homosexual couple might try to gay up the kids. But I doubt it would be any more common than heterosexual couples that try to "straighten out" their gay children and end up messing them all up in the process.

You’re right. Things change. It has been observed that the genesis of your change centers on the time of your marriage. That appears to be when you began your spiral into anger and bitterness. I don’t know if the wife stopped putting out after the nuptials, or married life wasn’t what you expected, or you’ve concluded that you’re living a lie and are actually homosexual. Whatever is at the root of it, you might want to address it before you alienate everyone around you. Get a mistress. Get a divorce. Get a rainbow sticker to slap on your bumper. Be loud and proud! Whatever it is, it’s not healthy and it’s causing things to come out sideways in your day-to-day interactions.

Admittedly, I can see where a particularly militant homosexual couple might try to gay up the kids. But I doubt it would be any more common than heterosexual couples that try to "straighten out" their gay children and end up messing them all up in the process.

I said that being raised in a gay household WOULD NOT make a kid gay. If I implied that in any way that it could or would I apologize. I don't believe that at all. But I do think it could be very confusing for a kid in their own development. The same way a kid in a household where the dad is beating the mom (or vice versa) tends to produce kids that don't have healthy relationships with the opposite sex.

Yeah, I was just thinking that seemed like a rather extreme comparison to make. I didn't think you were saying it would make the kids gay, but it did seem you were saying that it may confuse them ... now I see you meant it may leave them scarred for life by the trauma.

I see no basis for either assumption. I don't see how having two daddys could be all that confusing or traumatizing for a kid. No more than, say, having a step-parent of a different race. In either case the kid will catch some crap from other kids for being different, sure, but no more so than any other kid that is in some way unusual.

Strange. I was just mentioning tonight how you had changed over the past few years.

What you say is untrue, and I guess your "sophisticated" thirty-whatever year old way of saying I'm retarded.

Seriously, I'm not sure what's happened to you, but take a closer look inside yourself, not at me.

You might have noticed my disappearing from the boards for a couple of weeks at a time.

All I'm suggesting is that it merits investigating before giving a gay union the legal status of marriage where there's nothing that can be done about after the fact if it turn out to be harmful.

Rambling...