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I'd like to know what his end game is. Tariffs are accomplishing 'what'? Is he just flexing? Punishing those that don't bend a knee?

I have no judgement on it yet. I'm waiting to see what it does. I do think it's going to make a lot of things more expensive. But I feel like it could bring things back here too. I HATE our dependence on China. So long term, I can't know what it's going to do.

The cynic in me thinks it's a way to help the rich in America get richer. They get to raise prices, blame the tariffs (not their greed), etc. And honestly, I have no counter because we're talking about politicians. I sincerely don't think any of them have our best interests in mind. But at the same time, the rich are always getting richer, so long term, how does this affect things?

I also believe that 4 years of them aren't going to be enough for things to flesh out and when the Dems take over, they will reverse them. 4 years isn't enough time to end our dependence on China, etc. Most companies will just ride out the storm by passing the tariff costs to us. Then when the tariffs are removed in 4 years, prices will just stay higher cause that's how it works.

Bottom line, we are always getting fucked. At least now we can point at something and say "this is how".

Cakedaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:27 pm I also believe that 4 years of them aren't going to be enough for things to flesh out and when the Dems take over, they will reverse them.

Do Dems have a recorded history of ended taxes, just because they felt the tax wasn't needed any more?

Or are people with land lines still paying for the spanish american war?

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:51 am Last I heard him talk about this stuff, he said he was just going to match their tariffs on us. Is that what he did or did he *gasp* not do what he said?

It was not what he did. NAFTA and it's successor (signed by Trump), ensure very low tariffs (mostly none) across Canada, US, and Mexico. NAFTA was partially a reaction to the Euro zone to ensure a larger market for all 3 countries. So Canada->US and Mexico->US tariffs
These tariffs are in the White House's words, because of:

The extraordinary threat posed by illegal aliens and drugs, including deadly fentanyl, constitutes a national emergency under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA).

China - Sure, tariff China as much as you want, they cheat.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:51 am I think we're up to close to $2T being invested here in the states to build manufacturing and all the jobs that would come with it. So far, I've heard Apple, Honda, Clarios, TSMC, OpenAI, Softbank, Oracle, and Steve Madden have all announced investing in manufacturing in the U.S.

Every pledge should be taken with a massive grain of salt. It's largely either 1) things companies were already planning to do or 2) bullshit. So many of these projects are announced and turn into nothing. Very few people believe that the tariffs are going to stick.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:51 am Are these not welcome developments?

Is it as welcome that car prices are going to go up? Electricity prices where we trade with Canada (mostly the NE, northern midwest).

Cakedaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:27 pm The cynic in me thinks it's a way to help the rich in America get richer.

Usually. In this case the pain will hit markets, so the rich will bear some of the pain. The problem with tariffs is that they hurt everyone involved. US, Canada, China, Mexico, all will feel pain. This destroys wealth that could have been created.

Cakedaddy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:27 pm I also believe that 4 years of them aren't going to be enough for things to flesh out and when the Dems take over, they will reverse them. 4 years isn't enough time to end our dependence on China, etc

Yeah. And, in 2 years we'll have Dem Congress at this rate. I'm not 100% sure how long the president can declare an emergency, or if Congress has to sign off on it at some point.

I think tariffs are largely dumb. Especially in this case on Canada + Mexico. Why Canada's included makes no sense.

I know what happened. And with fewer illegal immigrants, and none of the New Deal programs and bank reforms yet in place to soften a blow like we had on Black Friday.

So, basically, let's see what happens when all those facts are true, and compare it to the first time. The memes won't be as pithy, I bet.

GORDON wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:57 am But I've always appreciated the fact he never started a war, even when he was criticized because he didn't. Maybe that's a thing that only someone who did a round as a soldier can appreciate, which is why democrats have seemed very bloodthirsty to me, over the last couple decades.

Pithy meme.

/r/thathappened

I still remember being screamed at when a D was certain Bush was going to start the draft so he could attack Iran.

I wish he were still alive so I could throw a r/thathappened at him.

Thanks for breaking some of that down.

A quick update:
-CNN has a story up echoing one thing I said, Mexico and Canada were facing recessions because of the tariffs.
-It's also now being reported there and elsewhere that a new trade deal between those three countries could be announced as early as tomorrow.

So, yeah, tariffs probably not sticking.

But one thing you didn't touch on and I really want to understand, why is it ok for our goods to get tariffed by other countries, but not vice versa? Should we ignore such tariffs or should we respond? What's the economic consensus on those situations? Wouldn't one way tariffs hurt us and not them? I just don't understand why we allow them.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 2:37 pm Is it as welcome that car prices are going to go up? Electricity prices where we trade with Canada (mostly the NE, northern midwest).

All depends on how all the new jobs help the overall economy versus the cost of the electricity. Plus, perhaps it stimulates new nuclear power plant development here?

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:43 pm -CNN has a story up echoing one thing I said, Mexico and Canada were facing recessions because of the tariffs.

Yeah, it's impactful enough for all 3 of us to have recessions now.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:43 pm So, yeah, tariffs probably not sticking.

Probably not, if Rs want to win an election again. But you literally never know with Trump.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:43 pm why is it ok for our goods to get tariffed by other countries, but not vice versa?

It's not, and we should have reciprocal tariffs. Or free trade agreements, which were pretty en vogue for a while. In theory there's a World Trade Organization that we're all members of and we have disputes resolved that way. Like if someone puts on a tariff, we complain, and WTO says "Yeah, that shouldn't happen, US can do retaliatory tariffs," or such. Or if countries "illegally" support industries, etc.

I don't know what countries have big tariffs on us, and it's really hard to google right now with all the new tariff news.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:37 pm But you literally never know with Trump.

Truer words...

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:37 pm In theory there's a World Trade Organization that we're all members of and we have disputes resolved that way.

Yeah, apparently China is going to sue us there over the 10% tariffs. I have to assume their tariffs on us will be part of that case.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:37 pm I don't know what countries have big tariffs on us, and it's really hard to google right now with all the new tariff news.

Right? That's always been Google's biggest weakness: recency bias.

I know China has some on us. I think Japan does on autos? And I've seen the memes about Canadian ones on us, but the only one I've been able to find hard evidence on during light searching is the milk one. No idea why they'd tariff our milk.

Here's a tariff I think a lot of people would support: Offshore technical support and customer service lines.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:57 pm Yeah, apparently China is going to sue us there over the 10% tariffs.

Speaking of China: https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/donald- ... ge-7852931

Saber rattling.

I don't care who is in the Oval office when I say this, "Fuck China."

China is pure fucking evil and I'm tired of the world looking the other way. They steal all of their tech, make ridiculous demands of anyone wanting to do business in their country, they still produce CFCs, they're building islands to steal more territory, they support Russia in the Ukraine war, they constantly undermine the West (both us and the EU), they're an oppressive regime, they have state sponsored hacking, and they still have slavery.

What's the good part?

Leisher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:46 am What's the good part?

Chinese food?

Actually, yes. I do love Chinese food.

Also, I have seen some attractive Chinese women.

Other than those things though...

We should have subjugated them when we had the chance. Classic Civ VI mistake.

Someone clever in the government with the X account:

"Nah we'll just stick to a drug war. Keep them within your borders, thanks."

Trump insulted Lesotho during his speech to Congress.

Ok, while it's a probably true and I'm sure got a chuckle from some, it's a dick move. You don't need to name names. Just talk about how the U.S. shouldn't be funding programs like this for other countries. This isn't hard.

at least World War 3 is back on.

Great Trump's going to bring back the fucking draft.