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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:37 pm
by TheCatt
Yeah, dude sure made himself worth a boatload of $ those past several weeks. If we pull the trigger, I sure hope he's legit.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:09 pm
by Leisher
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:33 pm
by Leisher
Pagano signs extension.
Wow. That's shocking.
Maybe Irsay saw the heat teams like Cleveland were taking for switching coaches too often? Maybe he called Harbaugh and Jim told him he can't leave Michigan after only one season?
Weird that Pagano would stay considering he and GM Grigson hate each other and the Colts are working on extending his contract too.
I think Pagano had heat with Irsay too.
This is really odd.
Edited By Leisher on 1451964856
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:39 pm
by TheCatt
Skins are screwed next year
But, I get to sell Packers and Steelers tickets next year. 
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:49 pm
by Leisher
I was just coming here to post about them playing next year. We'll have to put a friendly wager on that game.
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:57 am
by Leisher
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:45 am
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:I was just coming here to post about them playing next year. We'll have to put a friendly wager on that game.
Sure, give me 14 points
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:55 am
by TheCatt
538 says Redskins are worst playoff team, and Packers are favored to win (slightly).
538 also said that the Redskins would lose to Dallas last week, Philly the week before, Buffalo the week before that, and Chicago the week before that.
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:41 pm
by Leisher
I am blatantly stealing this from Stranger's wife's FB feed:
Awesome Cleveland Browns commercial.
Edited By Leisher on 1452015965
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:22 pm
by TheCatt
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:05 pm
by Stranger
Not anymore...
Moneyball is coming to Cleveland!!
Hell, if ya can't be good at football why not try baseball.
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:54 pm
by Leisher
That's a really interesting hire.
I think it could work out well, but my two concerns about it are:
1. He's a baseball guy. Yes, they're both professional sports team, but the sports are VERY different. He also won't have many contacts in the NFL versus how many I'm sure he had in MLB.
2. People have to listen to him. Football people have to listen to a baseball guy tell them how to do their jobs. Will folks swallow their ego to do that?
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:11 pm
by Stranger
It is interesting. Hell at this point what else have they got to lose. The Browns have tried just about every other thing and nothing has worked. When they hired Mike Holmgren everyone thought, hey, there's our football and QB genius. He got us Jake Delhomme, Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace, you see how that worked out.
So Cleveland is basically all in on this analytics thing, instead of putting any human in charge of the Browns let a computer run them. It just might be crazy enough that it works.
Edited By Stranger on 1452025367
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:41 pm
by Malcolm
There can be only two, and I still say St. Louis is left out.
I think it could work out well, but my two concerns about it are:
1. He's a baseball guy. Yes, they're both professional sports team, but the sports are VERY different. He also won't have many contacts in the NFL versus how many I'm sure he had in MLB.
2. People have to listen to him. Football people have to listen to a baseball guy tell them how to do their jobs. Will folks swallow their ego to do that?
1. It's all stats and analysis.
2. Yes, because they're paid to. If they don't, they're out. If he starts winning, they will.
The problem I see is...
He got his started[sic] in MLB with the Cleveland Indians in 1996. He worked his way up, eventually becoming the special assistant to the general manager, and was then hired by Billy Beane and the Oakland Athletics in 1999 (he was featured in the Michael Lewis book Moneyball and was portrayed by Jonah Hill in the movie).
In 2004, the Dodgers hired him to be their general manager and after being fired in 2005 took a job with the San Diego Padres. His most recent position was an executive with the New York Mets.
Number of championships: 0. He's been bounced around by a shitload of teams. The Dodgers, the guys with the biggest payroll in all of baseball by tens of millions of dollars, didn't want to waste money on this dude. He's like a less athletic, pale version of Dwayne Bowe who know statistics.
Edited By Malcolm on 1452048270
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:12 pm
by Leisher
2. Yes, because they're paid to. If they don't, they're out. If he starts winning, they will.
In a perfect world, maybe. However, people fight and feud in professional environments all the time.
Number of championships: 0. He's been bounced around by a shitload of teams. The Dodgers, the guys with the biggest payroll in all of baseball by tens of millions of dollars, didn't want to waste money on this dude. He's like a less athletic, pale version of Dwayne Bowe who know statistics.
Unlike baseball, football has a ton more intangibles like a defensive lineman doing great in a 3-4, but shitty in a 4-3 or vice versa. I'll be curious to see how a team built upon statistics operates in the NFL.
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:19 pm
by Malcolm
Math can account for defensive schemes and much more. The injuries are more of a killer in football.
Edited By Malcolm on 1452054011
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:51 am
by Leisher
Intangibles. Math can't account for that because those stats aren't tracked.
Joey Bosa, OSU's stellar defensive lineman, had fewer sacks this year. I think it was 12 vs 5. The stats will show a downward trend. However, in reality the QB was sent rolling away from him, run plays went away from him, he was double and triple teamed often, etc.
That's why he's a top 5 NFL draft pick despite his numbers dropping.
Baseball doesn't have that same issue because everything is measured and tracked. It's easier to do there because it's a much simpler and boring game.
I'm not saying stats can't be used, but I'd be leary about using them as the sole measure, and with the two top people making personnel decisions in Cleveland now being non-football people...
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:10 am
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:Joey Bosa, OSU's stellar defensive lineman, had fewer sacks this year. I think it was 12 vs 5. The stats will show a downward trend. However, in reality the QB was sent rolling away from him, run plays went away from him, he was double and triple teamed often, etc.
Those should be additional stats, and if not, someone's stats aren't good enough. % of time double-teamed, triple-teamed, etc. % of times plays went towards/away/static him, etc.
Baseball doesn't have that same issue because everything is measured and tracked. It's easier to do there because it's a much simpler and boring game.
Yeah, and there's not a lot of teamwork in baseball, imho. It's much simpler.
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:24 am
by Stranger
He's being hired for other things besides player acquisitions. He's there to find "inefficiencies in how the organization operates" and as we know, Cleveland has many. How they higher coaches, how they practice, how they game plan for opponents will all be analyzed.
From what I hear on the local radio is that this is just one tool the organization will use to determine any move they make. All the analytics in the world makes no difference if you don't have a coach that can put the players in the right position to win. But maybe the analytics can find ways that help the coach find faults in his game.
So the Browns will need a coach that buys into this structure. A traditional, shorts wearing, whistle blowing old timer coach like Bill Cower or Tom Caughlin wouldn't buy into this scheme. So they will need a progressive open minded, probably younger coach that is into this scheme for it all to work.
I really think this structure is set up to allow a coach to have some power in this organization because him and the "GM" will be the football guys and Sashi Brown and Paul Depodesto will be the analytics guys. Even though Sashi will have the final say, everything that I've heard about him is that he is very un-egotistical and will collaborate with others to come to a consensus.
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:26 am
by Leisher
TheCatt wrote:Leisher wrote:Joey Bosa, OSU's stellar defensive lineman, had fewer sacks this year. I think it was 12 vs 5. The stats will show a downward trend. However, in reality the QB was sent rolling away from him, run plays went away from him, he was double and triple teamed often, etc.
Those should be additional stats, and if not, someone's stats aren't good enough. % of time double-teamed, triple-teamed, etc. % of times plays went towards/away/static him, etc.
Things you listed can be tracked, but it's impossible to give stats for game plans to account for players and their skills. It's all going to be really difficult to account for actual double teams versus "Well, we're both standing here, and he's the only rusher..."
How do you create a stat to show that teams spent a season not throwing to Richard Sherman's side of the field intentionally? How do you track game planning to not blitz Big Ben because his QBR skyrockets when he's under pressure? How do you track WRs coming out of their routes to make plays?
The list goes on and on. It's impossible to track intangibles in football.
In baseball you can see the defensive shifts and how a pitcher pitches to a batter, etc. Football's far more complex and makes stat tracking pretty tough.