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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:07 pm
by Cakedaddy
Didn't say the school was paying them, only that they were paid.
Not tarnishing doesn't equal advantage. It's avoiding a disadvantage. Not justifying, only clarifying.
Stephen said that? Been there, said that:
The state of Pennsylvania should punish Penn State.
Agreed that those involved deserve jail time and punishments.
It's a slippery slope to punish a school for crimes committed by staff. And this crime has NOTHING to do with football. Him banging kids didn't bring better players, make better players, etc. He was associated with the program. But the program was not affected by his actions. This didn't change the eligibility of players, increase/decrease coaches' influence on players like extra practice would, etc. The program wasn't affected at all. The only 'affect' that could be argued would be the 'avoidance of affect' by avoiding a scandal. Would the NCAA have been involved if Penn State had blown the whistle at first notification? The crime was still committed. But since it wasn't covered up, then no harm, no foul? I guess you could argue that it certainly would have affected his eligibility as a coach (assuming conviction, which is obvious) due to being in prison. But I bet there are no NCAA rules against hiring a former child molester. And yes, I know Sandusky wasn't a former. . . but an active. I'm just saying, there are no rules regarding child molesters.
So, if there are rules saying that the program has to inform the NCAA of anything that would affect the eligibility of a coach to be a coach, then the NCAA should do something. As it stands, they just want to punish a football program at a school for the criminal activity of some of their staff. Non-football related activity. I think they should avoid that. Punish the school because a player gets in a fight at a bar and kills someone? Punish for football related rules only, I say. Let the state and DA take care of the offenders. Leave the innocent (guilty only by association?) football program alone.
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:35 pm
by Leisher
Miami is cheating again.
I think they get the death penalty now.
Didn't say the school was paying them, only that they were paid.
Yes, they were paid...for their personal property they sold. They were NOT paid to play. You understand that distinction right?
[/quote]It's a slippery slope to punish a school for crimes committed by staff. And this crime has NOTHING to do with football. Him banging kids didn't bring better players, make better players, etc. He was associated with the program. But the program was not affected by his actions. This didn't change the eligibility of players, increase/decrease coaches' influence on players like extra practice would, etc. The program wasn't affected at all. The only 'affect' that could be argued would be the 'avoidance of affect' by avoiding a scandal. Would the NCAA have been involved if Penn State had blown the whistle at first notification? The crime was still committed. But since it wasn't covered up, then no harm, no foul? I guess you could argue that it certainly would have affected his eligibility as a coach (assuming conviction, which is obvious) due to being in prison. But I bet there are no NCAA rules against hiring a former child molester. And yes, I know Sandusky wasn't a former. . . but an active. I'm just saying, there are no rules regarding child molesters.
I completely disagree.
It was a football crime because the key figure was a coach, the guy making the final call on NOT reporting him was the head coach, he had access to kids thanks to the program, when they found out they still allowed him access to the program, etc.
And what I mean by tarnished image is being associated with a child molester.
I have no idea how so many grown ass men could not only turn their back on this monster, but also continue to work with him, and be friends.
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:16 pm
by Cakedaddy
As soon as they sold the goods they were given while playing, those items had a cash value that was redeemed while in college. They were paid.
"Here is a token. Because you are a good player. Now, if you take it over to that guy over there, he'll give you $100 for it."
They are earning a trophy while playing and cashing it in for the payout. How can that not be getting paid? Not to mention the free goods they were receiving. What's the difference between a car and a tattoo? Well, besides about $30,000. But still. The amount doesn't matter. They are receiving compensation while playing college ball. You can't do that.
If players were allowed to sell 'their own personal property that was given to them by the school and it's boosters', then every college would be giving out all kinds of meaningless crap that the boosters would then buy.
"Come play at Michigan! We give you these M tokens. We'll give you 100 every week because you'll do so well in practice. And as it turns out, just outside the stadium are these machines that you can put the token in and it gives you cash!!" But don't worry, we aren't paying you to play so it's all good.
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:20 pm
by Leisher
As soon as they sold the goods they were given while playing, those items had a cash value that was redeemed while in college. They were paid.
"Here is a token. Because you are a good player. Now, if you take it over to that guy over there, he'll give you $100 for it."
They are earning a trophy while playing and cashing it in for the payout. How can that not be getting paid? Not to mention the free goods they were receiving. What's the difference between a car and a tattoo? Well, besides about $30,000. But still. The amount doesn't matter. They are receiving compensation while playing college ball. You can't do that.
If players were allowed to sell 'their own personal property that was given to them by the school and it's boosters', then every college would be giving out all kinds of meaningless crap that the boosters would then buy.
"Come play at Michigan! We give you these M tokens. We'll give you 100 every week because you'll do so well in practice. And as it turns out, just outside the stadium are these machines that you can put the token in and it gives you cash!!" But don't worry, we aren't paying you to play so it's all good.
Well, no. You're implying the school gave them permission. They didn't. That's a BIG difference.
Former players and other players on the team made public statements about how disgusted they were that people would sell those items.
Also, if you make a bowl game, players are given goodie bags by the bowls. X-Boxes and stuff like that are in those bags. Players around the country sell those items. That's not illegal according to the NCAA.
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:38 pm
by Cakedaddy
But the school knew, and didn't do anything. Until it was too late.
And I'm not surprised the NCAA has double standards like that.
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:53 pm
by Leisher
But the school knew, and didn't do anything. Until it was too late.
No, they didn't. Tressel knew way after the fact and then didn't report. That's why he's gone.
And I'm not surprised the NCAA has double standards like that.
Let's not forget how they pretend nothing is going on in the SEC.
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:51 am
by Leisher
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:36 am
by TheCatt
I've been torn on this, but I cannot object to it at all. It certainly seems like the environment was not academics first. And say as much as you want about that being true anywhere, but football may as well not exist if people involved in the program knew about this and didn't stop it.
I also feel UNC should be punished more strictly than they have been, especially with the fraudulent courses coming to light. Sure it was just the one professor and his one staff person doing it, but UNC should have monitored the academics of their students more closely.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:32 pm
by Malcolm
My draft is tomorrow. It's a keeper league, PPR, auction with $100 budget, can keep up to 4 players...
My potential keepers...
Ray Rice ... $27
Marshawn Lynch ... $3
Brandon Lloyd ... $6
Wes Welker ... $11
Marques Colston .. $10
Owen Daniels ... $6
Ahmad Bradshaw ... $15
Fred Davis ... $1
Matt Schaub ... $9
Tim Tebow ... $1
Much as it goes against my natural instinct to pay more than $20 for a player, I'm inclined to fork out $27 for Rice. He's the sole RB on the team, he's a receiving back, he's about as consistent as you get, and a PPR league makes him a virtual lock for 10 points a week minimum.
Also going to shell out $11 for Wes. In PPR, I'd be stupid not to. The only thing keeping him from being a god is Gronk.
Then it's cheapo time. Going with Fred David for $1 since he impressed me last year until that stupid delayed suspension. Also thinking of keeping Lynch for $3 as it looked like he was getting legit in the second half of the year.
Thoughts?
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:19 pm
by Troy
HBO Hard Knocks is back, and the first epsidoe is on HBO.com for free.
They have plenty of gratuitous shots of bikinis clad women and cheerleaders to boot (It's in Miami).
re: FF , Lynch has gotta be worth 3 bucks, even if he gets suspended for that dui
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:39 pm
by Leisher
Rice is strong, but that's a lot of cash.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:38 pm
by Malcolm
Leisher wrote:Rice is strong, but that's a lot of cash.
Paid $25 for LeSean McCoy last year and ended up trading him for Rice. I can virtually guarantee if I let Ray go, he'll auction for more than $27. In our league, he was the #1 RB last year by 50 points (next closest was LeSean, and I was so close to having them both as a 1-2 killer punch). The only downside I see is the pricetag (and perhaps slightly excessive workload, but he's proven he can handle it for another couple years). And it's looks like the top 3 is Arian, LeSean, and Ray.
If I go with my current strategy, I'll just need a QB, #2 WR, and flex to fill out my starters. If I don't keep Ray, I'd have to keep Ahmad instead.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:57 pm
by Leisher
How much money total do you get?
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:04 pm
by Malcolm
Malcolm wrote:My draft is tomorrow. It's a keeper league, PPR, auction with $100 budget, can keep up to 4 players...
$100
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:40 pm
by Troy
Chad, that is why you don't marry crazy. Even if it turns out it was all your fault.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:12 pm
by Malcolm
Johnson and Lozada agree that the incident happened inside Johnson's "black smart" car in the driveway in front of their house. The disagreement started when Lozada "located a Walgreen's receipt in the vehicle's trunk for a box of condoms."
If his recent performances are any indication, he's probably not cheating on her; he just rubs them on his hands before every game.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:12 pm
by TheCatt
Troy wrote:Chad, that is why you don't marry crazy. Even if it turns out it was all your fault.
Oddly enough, I googled Chad Pennington and found nothing. Figured it out.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:23 pm
by Troy
It sounds terrible, but going to wait for full details before passing judgement.
One of the two has a history of violence and random spats of anger. It isn't Chad.
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:07 pm
by Troy
Not that it mattered, He is now kicked off the Dolphins. Police report realllly didn't sound good. Everyone needs to just wash their hands of this dude and walk away.
Edited By Troy on 1344820045
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:23 pm
by TheCatt
