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TheCatt wrote:

Vince wrote: Are there any news articles dated prior to the whistle blower report that indicate this about Giuliani?

Yes, google it.

I did, but was unable to find anything that was prior to Schiff's tweet.

TheCatt wrote:

Leisher wrote: However, I think he genuinely wants people to like him, and to that end he does try to do some good things.

I won't agree.

Then you're not good at reading people. Trump very, very much wants to be liked and respected. And I wasn't implying that forces him to do ALL good things. I thought my first statement clarified that.

TheCatt wrote: His obstruction was impeachable, and they didn't bother then for some reason. I say goodbye, Trump. It's all good enough for me.

I think they're ALL impeachable.

The thing that really pisses me off are the back and forth accusations of crimes both parties are guilty of committing.

Trump's dirty. Hillary broke federal fucking law, among other things, and somehow it doesn't matter because...? Obama...go check the front page of this site for a list of his bullshit. Bush was in bed with certain corporations. Clinton lied about a BJ (who cares?) and took campaign money from a foreign power. And the list goes on for ALL of them, from presidents to county clerks.

Why some get prosecuted and others ignored, I don't know.

Then we get gems like "Fake News" and the mocking "But what about her emails" from their most ardent supporters, as if those statements are legit proof of anything. If our nation had any collective intelligence, we'd stop putting up with this horseshit and demand actual change from BOTH parties.

Both sides have their useful idiots willing to war for them. I wonder what the spark will be... Next best hope is a 2020 Trump win, then we'll see what happens when "one side has a trillion rounds of ammo, and the other side can't figure out which bathroom to use."

Fingers crossed.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be emotionally invested in any of this. Must feel like insanity.

GORDON wrote: I can't imagine what it must be like to be emotionally invested in any of this. Must feel like insanity.

There is no shortage of insanity on twitter on both sides for this issue.

For what it's worth, one of the few things I always vote for on local ballots is mental health measures. It feels like we're striving for critical mass crazy, as a society.

Leisher wrote: Then you're not good at reading people. Trump very, very much wants to be liked and respected. And I wasn't implying that forces him to do ALL good things. I thought my first statement clarified that.

I really don't think so. I think he wants to be envied.

He wants to be admired. He trashes the NYT all the time, but he's continuing to call Maggie whats-her-name trying to get a favorable story.

Oh.

Vince wrote:
Oh.

Whistleblower was smart to circulate it given Trump admin's reaction.

Schiff had the complaint before the DNI even had it. This is starting to look as coordinated as the Kavenough setup.

By all means, have an impeachment hearing. We need these witnesses under oath.

Vince wrote: Schiff had the complaint before the DNI even had it. This is starting to look as coordinated as the Kavenough setup.

By all means, have an impeachment hearing. We need these witnesses under oath.

CIA agent complained, got nowhere, went to the House to get advice, but, you know, believe what you need to.

After the initial compliant, he made the more formal one, which also (surprise!) went nowhere.

So the Trump admin has tried to sit all over this thing, but the people who want it aired are obviously the completely wrong + evil ones.

TheCatt wrote: CIA agent complained, got nowhere, went to the House to get advice, but, you know, believe what you need to.

After the initial compliant, he made the more formal one, which also (surprise!) went nowhere.

So the Trump admin has tried to sit all over this thing, but the people who want it aired are obviously the completely wrong + evil ones.

Maybe. Let's get them under oath and find out.

You'd think if that was the timeline that Schiff would have mentioned that when the report came out.

Edit to say: Actually Schiff denied that the committee had spoken directly with the whistleblower earlier this week on MSNBC. So yeah... looks like another Russia collusion/Blaise Ford scenario. I think there's Dem laundry for 2016 in the Ukraine that they're trying to muddy.

Trump says Ukraine + China should investigate the Bidens.

TheCatt wrote: Trump says Ukraine + China should investigate the Bidens.

I don't disagree. I don't think Trump should be the one asking about it. The President should have flunkies for that.

Vince wrote:

TheCatt wrote: Trump says Ukraine + China should investigate the Bidens.

I don't disagree. I don't think Trump should be the one asking about it. The President should have flunkies for that.

I feel like the rest of the world can fuck off. If Trump wants to investigate Biden, Americans should do it.

TheCatt wrote: I feel like the rest of the world can fuck off. If Trump wants to investigate Biden, Americans should do it.

Oh, I think we should as well. But we don't have authority to subpoena documents from another country.

Haven't watched the video but this seems relevant. Investigation over, I guess.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/0 ... rump-flap/

GORDON wrote: Haven't watched the video but this seems relevant. Investigation over, I guess.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/0 ... rump-flap/

Yes, Ukraine has a large history of corruption, which the US was fighting. The person fired was dragging his feet on corruption issues.

Here's Republicans in 2016 supporting removing that prosecutor.

The reality is that the Obama administration — as well as many other Western European officials — wanted the prosecutor, a man named Viktor Shokin, removed because he was believed to be trying to stymie anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine. In other words, if anything, Biden’s efforts could have put his son in more legal jeopardy, not less.

Yet the conspiracy theory persists and has been repeated by Trump’s Republican allies on Fox News and in Congress. But it turns out Republicans have failed to mention one important thing: At least three GOP senators at the time also wanted that Ukrainian prosecutor fired.

CNN uncovered a letter dated February 12, 2016, in which Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL), along with several Democratic senators, called for Ukraine’s then-president to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned (although he didn’t officially leave until the following month when Ukraine’s Parliament voted him out).

TheCatt wrote: Yes, Ukraine has a large history of corruption, which the US was fighting. The person fired was dragging his feet on corruption issues.

Two things can be true. Biden should have never been involved with the removal of this guy if he'd investigated Hunter's company. And I really don't think we were trying to remove a corrupt government as much as ensure that it was people corrupt in our direction. The previous President Poroshenko signed a $50,000-a-month contract with a Republican lobbying firm to assist in setting up meetings with government officials in an effort to "strengthen the US-Ukrainian relations." So that might be why some of the Republicans jumped on board. It looks like they investigated Paul Manafort at the request of Obama's administration during the 2016 election. As long as the country was run by Obama lackeys, everything was fine.

It seems like everything got stirred up after Zelensky was elected. I suspect they're trying to tarnish him as much much as they are Trump. I think there's a big stinking pile there from the previous administration.