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Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:26 am**

Not really. There were a handful of people killing each other for their stuff instead of helping each other. There were cases of people passing by those in need in order to save themselves. But mostly people helped along those wading along beside them in search of dry ground.

While I detest looting, I don't really count it as being in the same category when considering if people will help each other in a crisis or not. Looting - at least of the sort that happened during Katrina - is not a matter of life and death. Things got particularly ugly at the stadium, but even there most people banded together to protect each other from the few bad ones in their midst.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:31 am**

TPRJones wrote:
Look at NOLA during Katrina.
Yes, there were countless examples of people helping each other during Katrina. Good example.

I've never heard of one.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:44 am**

I heard a lot about abuse of funds by folks who got their government checks for surviving Katrina.

I saw lots of coverage of Sean Penn in a rowboat wielding a shotgun.

I hear horror stories about rapes in the Superdome.

I heard how the mayor refused to let a lot of folks evacuate by school bus because he wanted them in Greyhounds.

I heard about crime rate increases in cities where NOLA residents fled.

I heard about looters getting gunned down by the National Guard.

I heard how Bush was a dick because he didn't want to set foot on the ground in NO and instead flew over by helicopter. (He didn't want his security teams/press corp/entourage hampering rescue efforts.)

I didn't hear a lot of "good neighbor" stories.

Although, to be fair, the MSM doesn't report feel good stories too often. Bad news gets more ratings than good news.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:54 am**

I heard about people shooting at rescue helicopters, and how half the police force took off instead of doing their jobs.

Bush got slammed because he didn't send in FEMA for 3 days, because the fucking governor told him not to and he didn't want to invade Louisiana. He would have been slammed if he HAD sent in FEMA on day 1 against the governor's wishes. He also knew ahead of time that he would be slammed either way.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:10 am**

I didn't hear a lot of "good neighbor" stories.

I did. Not from the news, but from the people who were there and now live here in Houston. Yes, all those other things happened. Yes, there were some bad people that did end up in the news for all the reasons you listed. But from what I've been told they aren't the majority, just the few bad ones that get on the news because it makes for better ratings.

The majority were the ones that picked up and carried the old lady they came across struggling to trudge through the waters. The majority were the ones that grouped together to to share what water they had among them. The majority were the ones that set up watches in the Superdome to try to stop the rapists.

Of course they all also tried to get all they could out of FEMA, but that's like the TV looting; not a life or death issue and thus not really relevant.

This, at least, is the stories I was told. Oh, and I know one of those cops that left, and he left because they were told to go. They were told there was no money to pay them overtime and they weren't allowed to work off the books so they should just leave. Any that worked anyway would be reprimanded for violating federal employment guidelines. Which all sounds stupid as hell, but I trust this guy to be honest and it sounds like the sort of stupid shit the government would do.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:28 am**

Although I've also cursed the "Katrina rats" myself. After the refugees came to Houston crime did indeed go up. But again it's because some bad people came along with them, not because the majority of them are bad.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:00 pm**

Only ten percent of Muslims worldwide approved of what bin laden did on 9/11. That's about 100 million people.

Posted: **Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:54 pm**

Indeed. Which is why "all Muslims are bad" isn't at all accurate or fair. Bad Muslims are bad, most are not. You can't hold 1 billion people responsible for the independent actions of 100 million of them.

A little decimation would come in handy, though. The hard part is making sure you have the right 10%.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:21 pm**

Troll crawls out from under bridge.

Renowned physicist and author Christopher Keating is offering $10,000 of his own money to anyone who can prove that global warming is not real.
...
According to Auto World News, "Keating will be the final judge of the entries. Participants have to submit their own proofs and then he will critique them, according to the post.

Yeah, that sounds scientific. One dude making decisions based on his whim.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:30 pm**

I'll give Christopher Keating $10 if he can tell me what the temperature will be in Toledo, Ohio on December 15th 2014. However, he must inform me prior to November 15th, 2014.

"Climate Change" is an absolute indisputable fact of nature.

The reason nobody calls it "Man-Made Global Warming" anymore is because the science proving man is responsible for said climate change is shaky. The fact that the Earth's primary heating source is ignored in the "man is doing this" studies is kind of exhibit A. I'd call the fact that their models can't even correctly predict weather from the past, and so far, has been completely wrong about current weather as exhibit B.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:52 pm**

I'm sick and damned tired of these deniers suggesting some body out in space could possibly be responsible for the changing climate on Earth. My god... such a furnace would need to be the size of the sun.

Posted: **Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:37 pm**

TPRJones wrote:Indeed. Which is why "all Muslims are bad" isn't at all accurate or fair. Bad Muslims are bad, most are not. You can't hold 1 billion people responsible for the independent actions of 100 million of them.

This has kind of morphed away from my point. The problem isn't the 10% of Muslims that do bad. It's the other 90% that do nothing about that 10%. But back to the Katrina example... I agree with you that there were probably more people helping others than hurting others. But the higher % that were robbing, raping, assaulting, etc. made it one of the most dangerous cities in the country for a good while after that. If 10% of the city goes to being really bad guys, then that means 1 out of 9 people you meet is likely to kill you for your shoes (assuming that your the "not evil" 10th person).

It doesn't take a town full of bad guys to kill you. Just enough bad guys that you cross one's path.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:18 am**

True. But I never said that crisis makes us all angles. I said that most people will come together and help each other. Some others seem to think that most people will kill you for your shoes. I stand by my contention that the former is true, and the latter is a much smaller - and if things get really bad a quickly executed - minority.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:22 am**

"Post-apocalyptic biker gangs" are cliche, but that's my guess. These lone men, with no families or anything else tieing them to civilization, will roam the land literally raping and pillaging as an army, instead of starving to death. Lots of people will have stockpiles of provisions, and a few shotguns. The gangs will have a lot more shotguns.

Point being, 90% of the people who survive the first month will come together and help each other. The other 10% will rule over them with violence. Pretty sure history is always this way in the absence of a strong police force.

Posted: **Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:04 pm**

Some others seem to think that most people will kill you for your shoes.

If we're talking shoes and one pair's pretty much like another, then yeah, it's a small percentage chance I run across a big enough asshole to try.

But if we're talking something more valuable and your motive isn't strictly selfish, the chances of an otherwise non-asshole person acting like an asshole starts going up. When there simply aren't enough resources, people start to act like bitches.

People of different stripes tend to get along only when something more powerful than themselves makes it happen, whether "getting along" is achieved through an act of submission (like when a conqueror subjugates a land) or resistance (like when the ancient Greek city-states united to beat the shit out of foreign invaders) is the only question.

Generally, I think people are rather xenophobic. That's why they congregate with those most like themselves. There are certainly exceptions, but I'm going with a xenophobe rate of over 50%.

Edited By Malcolm on 1404252820

Posted: **Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:49 am**

Malcolm wrote:If we're talking shoes and one pair's pretty much like another, then yeah, it's a small percentage chance I run across a big enough asshole to try.

But if we're talking something more valuable and your motive isn't strictly selfish, the chances of an otherwise non-asshole person acting like an asshole starts going up. When there simply aren't enough resources, people start to act like bitches.

I agree. Hell, people try to kill you for your shoes now. Or try to kill you for your shoe money. Saw a video a few months ago where a guy in Atlanta was robbing people waiting in line for some new Nike shoe or some stupid shit like that. He ended up getting shot by one of the guys in line w/ a CC license.

But yeah, if that happens for shoes, the number of people that will kill you for food or clean water is going to be really up there. And God help you if you're one of the people that prepared for something like that, because then the people will pull together and help each other out to your shit. It'll be mob rule.

Posted: **Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:47 am**

The strong and violent will prey on the weak. It has always been thus, especially when someone has hungry kids at home. Or they just don't care.

Posted: **Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:12 pm**

The strong and violent will prey on the weak.

As long as the weak are assholes, fine.

Posted: **Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:35 pm**

When it comes to 8 guys working as a gang, you are the weak.

Posted: **Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:11 pm**

GORDON wrote:When it comes to 8 guys working as a gang, you are the weak.

Without further knowledge, that's not possible to say. There are stories from the Old West about one dude holding off eight and more. All about timing and opportunity.

Edited By Malcolm on 1404328735

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