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Posted: **Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:26 pm**

TheCatt wrote:
GORDON wrote:Interesting read. I've never had any formal instruction on my stroke, so I'll be practicing this stuff when I hit the pool next... it almost has to help, because even a 30 minute mile would have me going at my sprint speeds, and from what I read today 30 minute miles aren't even very good, and I can't even imagine that. My form must be really, really shitty.
Don't overdo it first day out, more than likely there are some muscles you aren't using the right way, and may tire out/get sore quickly.

As shitty as my form must, I still feel like I had a good workout, today. I'll ease into it.

Also hey 74 flip turns, today. I don't even think about them any more.

I can't provide video, but I can tell you my arm motions.... in the water it's a stiff arm, in a perfect arc, pivoting at my shoulder. Now that I am actually thinking about it, and I have seen video of good form, I can perceive how inefficient that is... half my power is in pushing my arm straight down, then back up.

I want to say I am already rolling my hips, but it's hard to be certain without video feedback.

Posted: **Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:57 pm**

GORDON wrote:in the water it's a stiff arm, in a perfect arc, pivoting at my shoulder. Now that I am actually thinking about it, and I have seen video of good form, I can perceive how inefficient that is...

Yeah, think of your hand and forearm as the blade of your paddle, and you want that part of your arms pulling as much as possible.

Arm entry is important as well, it should cut through the water, not causing turbulence.

When your arm is out of water, elbows high. That's your chance to rest your hand forearm.

I want to say I am already rolling my hips, but it's hard to be certain without video feedback.

You'll figure it out. As you start getting faster, you'll also notice that you don't need to bring your head up as high to breathe.

Posted: **Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:59 pm**

I'll be rewatching those videos after every workout for a while.

Posted: **Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:18 pm**

Here's a funny, gross story for you:

Yesterday in the Y I had changed into my bathing suit, and I always hit the shower for 60 seconds to rinse off the sweat from the gym before I hit the pool. The shower room is just this wide space with the entrance/exit on opposite sides... there is no way to walk from lockers ---> pool without going through. 10 shower heads, all open, no stalls. I am the only person in there, I just hit one near the exit.

This old fat man takes the shower RIGHT next to me, naked. Reminder, I am wearing my bathing suit. I have my swimming mp3/earplugs in, already on. I see him saying something to me. I pull one of the plugs out, "What?"

He says, "I said you'v got a big gash on your back."

It was a little scratch from the water slides last week.

Old, naked, fat dude sidled up to the shower right next to me and was checking me out.

And this is yet another reason to hate old people.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:54 am**

Started working on a corrected swim stroke, today.... damn I feel all gangly and awkward, again. And it was like DAMN... whole new set of muscles... I was fatigued in entirely new places, mainly different parts of my shoulder. I had basically mastered my old, bad technique, and have the wrong conditioned muscles to prove it. This is a whole new ballgame.

I did about 30 minutes, with just a few small breaks in between... concentrating on using the forearm as a paddle, bending my elbow, pulling myself through the water instead of perfect arcs like a paddle wheel under water... another insight, my old method would have been creating a ton of drag from my upper arm, since its point low on the fulcrum wouldn't have been producing any force, just a bunch more surface that water would have to go around. I'm so stupid.

At the end it was getting easier and I feel like a couple weeks of this and I wont need to think about it any more. I have suspended all my add-on training like sprints... I need to fix my stroke first, because everything else will be affected by that.

I did 25 yards in 22 seconds.

After 30 minutes I was curious... I went ahead and timed myself with this corrected stroke, with a quick anaerobic length, 90% power. 20 seconds.

Edited By GORDON on 1456242938

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:34 am**

GORDON wrote:Started working on a corrected swim stroke, today.... damn I feel all gangly and awkward, again. And it was like DAMN... whole new set of muscles... I was fatigued in entirely new places, mainly different parts of my shoulder. I had basically mastered my old, bad technique, and have the wrong conditioned muscles to prove it. This is a whole new ballgame.

I did about 30 minutes, with just a few small breaks in between... concentrating on using the forearm as a paddle, bending my elbow, pulling myself through the water instead of perfect arcs like a paddle wheel under water... another insight, my old method would have been creating a ton of drag from my upper arm, since its point low on the fulcrum wouldn't have been producing any force, just a bunch more surface that water would have to go around. I'm so stupid.

At the end it was getting easier and I feel like a couple weeks of this and I wont need to think about it any more. I have suspended all my add-on training like sprints... I need to fix my stroke first, because everything else will be affected by that.

I did 25 yards in 22 seconds.
After 30 minutes I was curious... I went ahead and timed myself with this corrected stroke, with a quick anaerobic length, 90% power. 20 seconds.

Nice! Once you get used to it, you'll feel like old you was a barge trudging through water.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:22 pm**

I want Ian Thorpe to come to the Y tomorrow and train me for an hour.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:10 pm**

GORDON wrote:I want Ian Thorpe to come to the Y tomorrow and train me for an hour.

You and your gay sex.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:18 pm**

I try to go to my strengths.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:01 am**

Ugh, this sucks, it's like I'm learning to swim all over again.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:35 am**

GORDON wrote:Ugh, this sucks, it's like I'm learning to swim all over again.

Give it a month or so...

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:03 pm**

GORDON wrote:Ugh, this sucks, it's like I'm learning to swim all over again.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:13 pm**

I'm thinking of getting a cheap underwater camera and having my kid try to record my form, so I can feedback myself. Too many new changes to my form. I'm not sure if I am rolling side to side enough, or too much. I don't know if I am getting my hand and forearm into position soon enough. I don't know if I am reaching out too far in recovery. And according to one video I watched last night, I am making way too many bubbles when my hand slices into the water, and it's making a ton of drag behind my arms. I was actively trying to do as well as the vid I saw (and can't find again, atm), but no matter how slow I went or at what angle my hand sliced the water, tons of bubbles.

Today I was focusing on all the new things, just doing one awkward lap at a time, and every now and then I would do it all just right and glide through the water for two strokes, but it was always by accident and I don't know what I did.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:32 pm**

Grab some leg bouys if your pool has them, and focus on your stroke. I do catch-up drill strokes which are basically:
1) no kicking (use a buoy).
2) reach out with both arms.
3) Do a full stroke with 1 arm.
4) when that hand gets all the way back to the front
5) Stroke with other arm.

That will allow you to focus on what each arm is doing in isolation without worrying so much about the rest of your stroke.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:34 pm**

I googled it and I think I have seen leg buoys in the equipment room.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:59 pm**

You know, the concept of holding that forward arm out there gliding until the other arm almost meets it is a completely foreign concept to me. My arms were always moving. It seems like you are wasting time, holding it out there, but I see all the pros doing it, so.

Edited By GORDON on 1456883982

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:09 pm**

GORDON wrote:My arms were always moving.

Both of them at the same time all the time?

Your one arm should be chilling a bit while the other pulls

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:59 pm**

TheCatt wrote:
GORDON wrote:My arms were always moving.
Both of them at the same time all the time?

Your one arm should be chilling a bit while the other pulls

Basically while the one was plowing through the water, the other was in the air in what I now know is the recovery phase. I never stopped one while the other caught up, I had them both moving continuously, and opposite each other.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:58 am**

TheCatt wrote:I do wear this style of swimsuit:

Switching from baggie ones saved me about 1-2 s per LENGTH of pool. Big difference.

I wore my new speedo jammer suit today, and I feel like it made a difference. My flip turns seemed less clunky, the kick off seemed like I was gliding farther, and when you sometimes coast up to the wall because you are getting the proper spacing for the flip turn, it seemed like I was gliding up to it faster.

And it felt like I was swimming naked so that was fun.

I probably did a mile today, wasn't counting laps but I went steady for 45 minutes. I am focusing on my arms, mostly, making sure I angle my hands down at entry so I get into that forearm-paddle as soon as possible, and pushing straight back instead of my shoulder-pivot-waterwheel style. When I can do that without thinking about it every stroke, which I still have to do, I will focus on other areas. The new muscles still hurt, but I find myself getting numb to it at about 15 minutes and then I can just zone out and swim.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:14 pm**

GORDON wrote:I wore my new speedo jammer suit today, and I feel like it made a difference. My flip turns seemed less clunky, the kick off seemed like I was gliding farther, and when you sometimes coast up to the wall because you are getting the proper spacing for the flip turn, it seemed like I was gliding up to it faster.

Yes, a LOT less drag. Wouldn't be surprised if you were 1-2 seconds faster per length, just based on the new suit.

And it felt like I was swimming naked so that was fun.

Less drag in the suit... although, probably not in your case. :p

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40 aint no joke - General fitness thread