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Good point, Leisher. Also, that 55% favor-ability was sure helped by Clinton and Trump being themselves in the race.

TheCatt wrote:Good point, Leisher. Also, that 55% favor-ability was sure helped by Clinton and Trump being themselves in the race.

Absolutely. Our choices were so bad that they made Obama look good.

Vince wrote:

TheCatt wrote:Good point, Leisher. Also, that 55% favor-ability was sure helped by Clinton and Trump being themselves in the race.

Absolutely. Our choices were so bad that they made Obama look good.

Truth. During Obama's first term Bush's approval ratings rose.

WAY too many people are signing up for Obamacare. So they'll get the money from education and infrastructure.

Again, why did we need to destroy people's existing insurance plans in order to insure the uninsured?

An alternate plan:
Take all the names of the uninsured and tell insurance companies to bid on covering them. Go with the lowest bidder. Done.

The cost of your alternate plan will still be way too high.

Yeah, there's a more fundamental issue about how much everything costs.

It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than what we're paying for now with the added benefit of not eliminating employer provided health insurance.

Health care will NEVER come down in price unless the actual price stops being hidden by health insurance.

GORDON wrote:Health care will NEVER come down in price unless the actual price stops being hidden by health insurance jacked up by tens of millions of people taking shitty care of themselves early on in life so as to make their costs (and mine) balloon later on.

Fixed.

When was the last time you saw a hospital running a sale on appendectomies? Health care hasn't followed the rules of supply and demand for a long time, if ever. The cost isn't ever coming down no matter how much people start taking care of themselves, and I would be curious to see how much administrative costs have risen in relation to everything else, with the new health insurance regulations.

The cost isn't ever coming down no matter how much people start taking care of themselves

Bullshit. The amount you'd save in preventative, chronic conditions alone would be huge.

When was the last time you saw a hospital running a sale on appendectomies?

I'm going to say, "Never," and even if I saw it advertised somewhere, I wouldn't take them up on it. That's a bit too Doctor Nick for me.

Honestly, Malcolm's wrong. Any benefits would be temporary until those same healthy people got old and you spend a fortune on prolonged end of life care.

You either make a market, or you ration care and set prices.

It's understood you get more expensive to keep alive as you age. Would people find other things to waste their money on if they weren't diabetic and buying insulin? Sure. It's not going to keep cancer from hitting them in their 60s or 70s. But you wouldn't be pissing away health care dollars during the times of your life you're supposed to be in reasonably good shape.

Malcolm wrote:It's understood you get more expensive to keep alive as you age. Would people find other things to waste their money on if they weren't diabetic and buying insulin? Sure. It's not going to keep cancer from hitting them in their 60s or 70s. But you wouldn't be pissing away health care dollars during the times of your life you're supposed to be in reasonably good shape.

But you just go ahead and die early instead.

Every region of the afterlife keeps kicking me back here. Neither the gods nor devils will take me in.

I would be surprised if healthy long-living people ended up costing less overall in lifetime healthcare expenses than those that die young of heart attacks.

TPRJones wrote:I would be surprised if healthy long-living people ended up costing less overall in lifetime healthcare expenses than those that die young of heart attacks.

Because the young heart attack victims have the decency to kick off before they get too pricy? Fine. But I get 40-60 more years of taxes and productivity out of my old, healthy guys. Those numbers only go up as medical care gets better and jobs get more service-oriented in this country.

Okay, but service jobs are on the way out because robots.

TPRJones wrote:Okay, but service jobs are on the way out because robots.

Servicing robots? Also, I maintain until real AI happens, a several classes of jobs will never be automated. You'll also need Commander Data-calibre robots before get the really difficult ones out of the way.

You don't need real AI, you just need a coding bot that is more clever than it's own programmer and can make an even more clever coder bot. A few iterations of that and you get fake AI strong enough to do most jobs currently being done by most meat people. You of all people should know that most people aren't all that bright and shouldn't be too hard to replace.