Welcome to Thunderdome

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:19 pm**

really.. stop derailing the thread?!!!!! get over it

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:24 pm**

Get over what? What are you talking about?

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:25 pm**

I'd say you derailed the thread first.. Chris Kluwe isn't even in the NFL anymore. What does this have to do with the NFL?

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:34 pm**

1. This is where he has been discussed in the past.
2. He's only famous because he was in the NFL.
3. If he wasn't a cancer, his career wouldn't be over.
4. He's currently suing an NFL team.

If Joe Namath died tomorrow, my first instinct would be to post a link to the article discussing his death here. Same logic behind Phillip Seymor Hoffman's death thread being under movies.

I mean, we post about the Browns here, and they have very little to do with pro football...

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:39 pm**

dont tell me not to derail a thread..

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:40 pm**

Lighten up Francis.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:45 pm**

Catt's hero, Chris Kluwe posted this today. It's an article written by one guy who makes claims that a "1%" party was thrown, and somehow he got in and they were making jokes about gays and main street America, yada yada yada.

People started questioning the validity of the article. Kluwe responded with:

The ultra rich are getting vilified because they're proven sociopaths, and somehow considered valued members of society.

Fine. Let's say the article is 100% accurate, and not at all slanted by someone looking for evil in a room full of people who he has dedicated his life to believing ARE evil...

Immediately people, like myself, starting pointing out how you can't judge the many based on the few.

My response (just as an example):

Making assumptions about a group of people based on one person's account of a few of them. That's worked well in the past...

His response to all the criticism:

It baffles me how many people try to defend the indefensible in the hopes that one day they'll be the ones in that position.

And:

Lotteries everywhere rejoice at that mindset.

He then apparently got mad and logged off.

What a piece of shit. His belief that he is morally and intellectually superior despite his obvious bigot flag flying is disgusting. How about showing some humility, and admitting that perhaps you're incorrectly painting a large group of people with the same brush?

I support Kluwe on the gay rights issue, and enjoyed his openness towards the NFL. However, as his politics consume his life, and turn his good intentions into absolute hatred for anyone he perceives as a problem or who dare disagree with anything he says, I'm now ignoring him.

I find it sad that he's being such a bigot after fighting the good fight against bigotry.

Edited By Leisher on 1392756826

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:14 pm**

Maybe he was ticked off by people like Tom Perkins comparing raising taxes to Kristallnacht.

"Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its 'one percent,' namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the 'rich,'" he wrote, opening a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal.
"This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent 'progressive' radicalism unthinkable now?" he concluded.

Or Perkins' idea that the rich should be able to buy more politicians that they already do.

I'm a big fan of Capitalism. But, I can understand Kluwe's rage. A lot of people think finance people broke America. I think that statement way oversimplifies, and casts too much blame. But they aren't exactly innocent. And maybe some number of them aren't broken, but a large, significant number of them are, compared to average Americans. They are disassociated from society. They don't see poverty, they don't see working class people. That lack of exposure directly correlates to a lack of sympathy, empathy, and understanding.

I have little sympathy for people running most hedge fund and private equity firms. Nothing in that article sounds different from friends of mine who work in that industry. It sounds completely valid to me.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:19 pm**

These people piss me off. Not every hardcore capitalist is as insane as the dudes linked by catt, but even a little bit of crazy sounds evil with enough cash behind it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:33 pm**

I'm a big fan of Capitalism. But, I can understand Kluwe's rage.

I'm also a huge fan of Capitalism, and understand anger towards assholes abusing the system or who feel superior because of their economic status. (Check my FB status today...)

That being said, I can't support Kluwe's blinded bigotry and ignorance in saying all 1%ers are the primary evil on this planet, and the cause of everything bad.

I mean, look at this statement:

The ultra rich are getting vilified because they're proven sociopaths, and somehow considered valued members of society.

Replace "ultra rich" with any group of people (whites, blacks, men, women, Catholics, gays, illegals, LoL players, etc.) and any person, in any context would be called an ignorant bigot for saying it. So why does he get a pass?

In the minds of people like Kluwe 1% has replaced "Bush/Haliburton/Global Warming".

And FYI, let's look at Perkins. He made a dumb comparison to Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany comparisons are nothing new. Many folks on the left, including politicians, tried comparing Bush Jr. to Hitler when he was in office. Ditto for right leaning folks do now to Obama. Hell, as Stranger pointed out, me, him, Cake, and Gordo compared players to Hitler nightly in League of Legends. (Granted that last one was in jest, but I think the point remains.)

And while I disagree that rich people should get more votes because they pay more in taxes, I understand why he's making the statement. I can understand the logic used to craft the concept, but I disagree with it.

I do find his idea that only taxpayers should be able to vote interesting. Very Heinlein-like. (Different subject for a different time and thread.)

What bugs me the most about Kluwe flying the bigot flag high and proudly today is that he threw all of his own credibility away. He's now just a whack job, and I honestly thought much better of him. I didn't agree with all of his issues, but he never displayed any crazy until lately.

I've got some FB friends who do similar things. They make a great point about something political or whatever, and then they color it with something bigoted or ridiculous. To me, it amounts to name calling and screaming matches. I think when you get there, you should be removed from the discussion.

They, like him today, are disappointing.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:04 pm**

And FYI, let's look at Perkins. He made a dumb comparison to Nazi Germany.

Listening to what many in the Occupy movement were saying about Jews along with the 1%... I'm not so sure that his comparison was that dumb.

Invoking Godwin's Law has become a crutch in my mind. "I don't have to justify my authoritarian views because you mentioned Hilter and Nazis!"

And the Anti Defamation League... Jeez... They said, "Never forget" so that it would happen ever again. To anyone. ADL's having a meltdown whenever some DOES draw a comparison to the Holocaust only ensures that at some point (sooner rather than later) it WILL happen again. The whole point of making the comparison is to remind people where that kind of thinking leads.

All that being said, Perkins might have done better comparing to to the French Revolution where they were decapitating children because they came from affluent families.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:24 pm**

Yeah, I'm not going to defend Kluwe's rant... I do think the 1% are doing quite fine in this day and age, and have.. oh, just about nothing to complain about. The whole "Carried interest" bullshit for private equity/hedge fund needs to be fixed. And yes, that means I support higher taxes on them. They make millions or billions, but pay lower tax rates on earned income than I do.

I don't want to see France/Scandanavian-like 70-75% tax rates, but I do think their taxes should be higher than they presently are.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:45 pm**

Invoking Godwin's Law has become a crutch in my mind.

A) Godwin's Law is around for a reason. This.

B) The main problem is that the extent of most people's knowledge of Nazis reduces to three items: (i) Holocaust, (ii) WWII, and (ii) their evil because of the first couple items. They instantly associate "Nazi" with "wrong" and that leads to this. People forget that not every single item on their agenda can be taken as unequivocally wrong/evil in a vacuum. If you try to interpret it that way, shit becomes psychotic very quickly and easily. Back in the '20s and '30s, they were somewhat fucking popular (even in the US), and it wasn't because they went around acting like goddamn Saturday morning cartoon villains. Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford, American icons, both loved them some Hitler.

For Lindbergh's 1927 flight and services to aviation, on behalf of Adolf Hitler, Göring presented him with the Commander Cross of the Order of the German Eagle. (Henry Ford received the same award earlier in July.)

You think they were the only two in the country?

C) There's not a lot of people alive today that saw Nazism in its full-blown wtf-ness, so we're going off hindsight mostly. I've seen a bajillion documentaries, specials, and read loads of books and articles on the subject, and I've met death/concentration camp survivors. Second-hand knowledge is scarcely sufficient to understand what went on, let alone how or why things were allowed to get that fucked up in the twentieth motherfucking century. Will there be another major power regime that's as oppressive and xenophobic? Oh shit, yeah. No doubt. Especially if you give the past ones such a shallow treatment that they're turned them into forensic weapons of five-year olds that make one think such apogees of assholiness that can never again be reached.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:46 pm**

I don't want to see France/Scandanavian-like 70-75% tax rates, but I do think their taxes should be higher than they presently are.

I want them encouraged to live in my country. I don't want to France them away to Russia.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:09 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
Invoking Godwin's Law has become a crutch in my mind.
A) Godwin's Law is around for a reason. This.

So would you invoke Godwin's Law when some says in arguing against gun confiscation that this was what allowed the Nazi party to take total control over the population with no resistance?

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:52 pm**

Godwin's Law states that as a (UseNet) discussion goes on, the probability of someone mentioning the Nazis approaches 1. When someone brings up the Nazis, Godwin's Law has been confirmed. Whether or not it's a valid analogy is not something Godwin talks about.

Posted: **Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:58 pm**

The problem is that many people who secretly think the nazis had some pretty good ideas use godwin's law as an instant "win" button.

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:36 pm**

Kickstarter for Cleveland Brown sports coloring book

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:57 pm**

TheCatt wrote:Kickstarter for Cleveland Brown sports coloring book

Brilliant.

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:15 pm**

Ray Rice. "You just got knocked the fuck out!"