Welcome to Thunderdome

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:16 pm**

That blue state which is an eternal bastion of liberal thought, Texas, has leveled felony charges against the Center for Medical Progress's director.

Daleiden has admitted to putting together a fake company he dubbed Biomax Procurement Services. His group assumed aliases and claimed to provide fetal tissue to researchers.

The fake IDs used by Daleiden and Merritt, which look like California licenses, triggered the felony charge, Schaffer said.
...
Intent to cause harm is what elevated the possession of fake IDs to a more serious felony charge than, say, a 16-year-old trying to buy a six-pack would receive, Schaffer said. Under Texas law, the charge carries a penalty of two to 20 years in prison.

As for PP, even Texas found...

The grand jury, meanwhile, cleared Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast of any wrongdoing.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:35 pm**

It occurs to me that - on the bright side - the opposition to Planned Parenthood, birth control, abortions, and all of that is a self-correcting problem. The vast majority of children that are born because of the laws limiting access to abortions and birth control will be born to poor families, the poor being those least likely to be able to afford to overcome the resistance. Statistically the vast majority of them will be Democrats, so in about eighteen years when they start to vote in droves the Repubs will be driven out of office.

Honestly it may be one of the best long-term Democrat recruiting policies the Republicans have ever enacted.

Edited By TPRJones on 1460504540

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:51 pm**

It's great that a lot of people have decided the "when does life begin?" question is very black and white and there is an exact day when abortion becomes bad, but for a lot of people the issue isn't quite set in stone, and in their minds aren't willing to murder even though their side might lose an election somewhere down the line.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:55 pm**

But even though they are uncertain they're perfectly happy forcing others to follow their own beliefs through code of law. Seems legit.

EDIT: Really this comes from seeing people responding to welfare issues with "well don't have kids you can't afford!" I'm actually fine with that, but if it's some right-wing conservative saying it then I say when you take away all their access to birth control or abortion, what do hell you expect is going to happen?

Edited By TPRJones on 1460505592

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:57 pm**

TPRJones wrote:But even though they are uncertain they're perfectly happy forcing others to follow their own beliefs through code of law. Seems legit.

Ok.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:03 pm**

...and in their minds aren't willing to murder even though their side might lose an election somewhere down the line.

Except those people:

1) aren't the ones performing the "murder"
2) aren't the ones looking for a "hitman" to perform such an action

Wonder why I don't hear them bitching as loud that leaving young children unvaccinated is also murder. That one seems worse because abortions aren't contagious and death from an easily preventable disease is like an ultra-late term abortion. While we're at it, Christian Scientists are also killers, as is anyone that believes in holistic or homeopathic medicine. Guess we got to legislate against them, too.

Edited By Malcolm on 1460506205

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:42 pm**

Just go ahead and say that I am a wacko nutjob because I think there might be a gray area, here, and I can see others points of view, too.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:02 pm**

If you don't want one, fine. If you don't want your kid to get one, fine. Restricting it for others isn't something I'm liable to support without more proof than the "it's murder" side thinks.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:09 pm**

And you just can't see where they are coming from? Right or wrong, they see it as murder, and they see themselves as complicit with murder, as the citizens of the country allowing murder. You REALLY can't see where they are coming from?

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:08 pm**

I can. But however they feel about it the results will be more poor people and more welfare voters. I will accept "don't have kids you can't afford" and I will accept "abortion is murder and also no contraceptives for anyone*" but I will not accept both from the same person. They are contradictory. If they are going to face reality then someone who proclaims both stances must accept that they are choosing to condemn a certain number of unwanted children to be born into a life of homelessness and starvation.

I guess if they are fine with that last point then ... well, then they don't seem like a very nice person. IMO.

* that second part I'm less willing to accept, but I'm including it for the sake of argument

Edited By TPRJones on 1460517528

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:18 pm**

America's strategies to reduce the number of poor people makes no difference whatsoever with our open border policy. We have an unending, unhindered stream of poor people coming in 24 hours a day. I think until the borders are closed to economic refugees, saying PP is a good for the future of... reduced poor people.... is not a very relevant argument.

Edited By GORDON on 1460517546

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:20 pm**

All because there is an external source doesn't mean willfully increasing those born here by poor citizens is a good idea. That's like refusing to put out your kitchen fire until your neighbor stops burning his house.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:27 pm**

Or it's like trying to drain the ocean with a teacup.

I don't have a problem with abortion, though my "when does life begin" guess might be slightly more conservative than others. I suspect PP is shady, because I think almost everyone is shady. I see lots of people defending PP with sarcasm and bile and anger who also have no clue whether or not it is shady, but they have their opinions. And I don't think abortion should be subsidized. We all know my opinion about the federal funds "just go for the mammograms not the abortions" is a bullshit rationalization. I can understand why people would be pissed.

I don't need to watch a Python skit about Catholics to understand the issue.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:36 pm**

And I think that's a perfectly fine stance as long as you will acknowledge that this means there will be a certain number of unwanted children born into a life of homelessness and starvation that would not have been born otherwise. Unless you are into providing more welfare to cover them, of course.

But personally I'd rather decrease welfare and increase access to birth control and even early term abortions, because I don't like people so I lean towards having fewer of them around rather than more.

EDIT: Well, there is one other stance which is "poor people should not make bad decisions", but I don't think that's a particularly realistic approach. And making them have a child they didn't want isn't going to make that particular situation any better.

Edited By TPRJones on 1460519410

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:51 pm**

TPRJones wrote:I will accept "abortion is murder and also no contraceptives for anyone*"

* that second part I'm less willing to accept, but I'm including it for the sake of argument

Please don't. However flexible the line on where life begins, we can surely accept that it doesn't begin before the zygote is even formed.

Unless you believe that there are countless unborn souls up there in a heavenly sniper rifle, just waiting for God in a Master Chief costume to calculate the exact windage and timing to fire them into the zygote, and any form of contraception causes him to miss and the tiny soul to fly into Hell where it'll become a tortured mini marshmallow in Satan's hot chocolate of suffering.

But that would be silly. God never misses.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:55 am**

I really don't think God needs to adjust for windage when He can just control the wind. Think about it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:53 pm**

Right or wrong, they see it as murder, and they see themselves as complicit with murder, as the citizens of the country allowing murder.

Then they can expand their crusade to other shit:

Wonder why I don't hear them bitching as loud that leaving young children unvaccinated is also murder. That one seems worse because abortions aren't contagious and death from an easily preventable disease is like an ultra-late term abortion. While we're at it, Christian Scientists are also killers, as is anyone that believes in holistic or homeopathic medicine.

If you're against murdering unwilling victims, then be consistent about it.

I suspect PP is shady, because I think almost everyone is shady.

That's not much a neg against them if you apply to everyone.

And I don't think abortion should be subsidized.

I'd rather pay partially for someone's abortion now rather than potentially pay for the welfare of two people or more later. If you can guarantee I don't have to do that second thing, I'll let the first slide.

I see lots of people defending PP with sarcasm and bile and anger who also have no clue whether or not it is shady, but they have their opinions.

Funny, I've seen the same behaviour from the other side with respect to defunding.

Edited By Malcolm on 1460570171

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:52 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
I see lots of people defending PP with sarcasm and bile and anger who also have no clue whether or not it is shady, but they have their opinions.
Funny, I've seen the same behaviour from the other side with respect to defunding.

So great, to make the decision let's just refer to the Constitution and see what it says about the government paying for abortions.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:16 pm**

About as much as it says about the prez having a cabinet. The gov't has a vested interest for the same reason I just said.

I'd rather pay partially for someone's abortion now rather than potentially pay for the welfare of two people or more later.

Edited By Malcolm on 1460589452

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:37 pm**

Again, that logic doesn't hold water with our open border policy.

Welcome to Thunderdome

Planned Parenthood is organ farming