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Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:25 am**

Leisher wrote:That's one thing about FarCry (a previous game by the company), it was gorgeous, but what they put into the graphics was missing from the AI and gameplay.

I disagree. Far Cry might be the best game I've ever played, easily top-3.

I know this is an old debate, but still.

That's, like, just your opinion, man.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:59 am**

Leisher wrote:
I thought Valve got pissy w\ Vivendi/Sierra.
Eh, they got pissy with someone. Vivendi/Sierra, EA, Microsoft, etc. They're all the same.

Maybe, but EA still holds a special place of hatred in my blackened, carbonized heart. Interplay runs a relatively close second.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:13 pm**

Leisher wrote:Stop right there. Go search through these chains and you'll find that I'm the biggest proponent of gameplay over graphics. Graphics are just easy to make an reference when talking about new technology rather than physics or innovations in gameplay.

I have always said the graphics are nice, but the gameplay and story is what makes a game fun and entertaining.

So no argument from me regarding graphics.

Sorry, I interpreted the following as an argument, thinking your mentioning of graphics with regards to UD was part of the budget/studio constraint.

Wouldn't it be great if the gaming industry was like the music industry in that an independent with no financing could make something just as good as a studio?

I mean, if Urban Dead can be fun with 10 moves a day and no graphics outside of a map, imagine what it could be like with a budget.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:34 pm**

I do miss the days when you could make kick-ass, industry standard-setting games from your garage.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:25 pm**

I disagree. Far Cry might be the best game I've ever played, easily top-3.

Seriously? Top three?

I honestly thought FarCry was a gorgeous "also ran". Looks like I need to reload it and give it another go. If it doesn't measure up again, I'll going to hurt you. That's right...no lube.

That's, like, just your opinion, man.

I am the law!

Maybe, but EA still holds a special place of hatred in my blackened, carbonized heart.

I fucking hate EA. There is no company that hates its customers more.

Hey, here's another question for the boycotters: EA (or whomever you're boycotting) didn't make the game, but they are publishing it. Do you still boycott the game? If so, why? We're talking about a product that EA has NOTHING to do with outside of distributing it.

I do miss the days when you could make kick-ass, industry standard-setting games from your garage.

Ditto. Some of my fondest gaming memories are from games that could be made in a garage, not games with million dollar budgets and a team of 200.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:58 pm**

Leisher wrote:Hey, here's another question for the boycotters: EA (or whomever you're boycotting) didn't make the game, but they are publishing it. Do you still boycott the game? If so, why? We're talking about a product that EA has NOTHING to do with outside of distributing it.

Tough call. While I'd like to say that I'd flat out just not get it, Christ knows I can't imagine every possible instance in which EA publishes a game I might be interested in. My instinct is that unless there was a very, very compelling reason to give cash to EA (cos some of my cash will indeed be going to them should I purchase this product), I wouldn't get it. Particularly if it's EA, too, cos they've just got the anti-Midas touch from my view.

Now, if Interplay & a magically vintage Bioware & Black Isle got together for another BGesque game, I'd probably get it. I dunno, if EA came out w\ Privateer III, I might have to make a difficult decision as well.

Edited By Malcolm on 1193853527

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:04 pm**

My instinct is that unless there was a very, very compelling reason to give cash to EA (cos some of my cash will indeed be going to them should I purchase this product), I wouldn't get it.

That's the interesting part of all this boycott talk to me.

If you buy a game in a store (online or off), the distributor (EA, Vivendi, Microsoft, etc.) gets the lion's share of the profits.

If you buy it off Steam the developer gets the lion's share of the profits.

If you buy it directly, the developer gets it all (?).

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:10 pm**

I'd kill for a direct purchase from the creator. That'd be bollocks. I thought the shareware model that Doom abused in the early '90s was fucking brilliant. If you could get something similar to that going, it'd be sweet. Problem is how do you initially tip off the gaming public at large to your newly created game if you're some dinky-ass, nothing company that hasn't done anything noteworthy yet?

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:19 pm**

Viral marketing campaign.

Only do it tongue-in-cheek and so over the top that nobody gets upset.

Such a beast would do very well on Al Gore's interweb.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:24 pm**

Leisher wrote:Viral marketing campaign.

Only do it tongue-in-cheek and so over the top that nobody gets upset.

Such a beast would do very well on Al Gore's interweb.

I have no doubt that creative advertising could do the trick. I have several doubts, however, as to an advertiser's ability to distinguish between "creative" & "very fucking invasive & annoying."

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:56 pm**

I don't force my boycott on my kids/family. But I make them feel very guilty about their purchase and let them know I see it as a direct insult to me.

There's nothing EA could make that would make me buy it. Had TA2 been an EA production, I would have it. The ONLY way I MIGHT consider buying an EA product is used. That way, I'm not directly contributing to the company. And the only reason I'd do that is if everyone else has it and I'm missing out on some mad multi-playing stuff.

As far as buying stuff that others make, but EA publishes. I think HL2/CS was the last product where I did that. I was torn. I hated that EA was getting some of my money, but I wanted to support Valve. Steam might be all about working around the publishers, but it's too damn expensive. WAY too expensive. They should be offering MUCH better deals there. I'm convinced that EA has their hands on Steam as well. Making sure they don't undercut EA's copies and/or making Steam disable regionaly challenged copies. Why doesn't Steam price the software just above what they'd get going through a publisher? Cause they are forcing people to buy from the publisher anyways with their prices.

And at this point, my boycott may extend to anything EA publishes. I hate the fact that they got some of my money in my attempt to dollarly vote for a non-EA product.

And yes, I will stop playing games all together if EA eventually takes over the whole industry.

Edited By Cakedaddy on 1193864471

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:13 pm**

Cakedaddy wrote:And yes, I will stop playing games all together if EA eventually takes over the whole industry.

Well, should that occur, I will hoist the Jolly Roger from my virtual sloop.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:56 pm**

Actually, that's what I meant to say. I'd steal from EA all day long and smile while doing it. So, I'll be your first/best customer! Hell, I'd steal games from them that I don't even intend to play.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:47 pm**

I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but if you get economic value from something, you should provide economic value in return.

If you seriously have issues with what they're doing, just don't buy it.

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:15 pm**

I don't force my boycott on my kids/family. But I make them feel very guilty about their purchase and let them know I see it as a direct insult to me.

Damn that's evil. Bravo.

Steam might be all about working around the publishers, but it's too damn expensive. WAY too expensive. They should be offering MUCH better deals there.

I agree and disagree. For the older stuff, they charge way too much. The Opposing Force expansion pack for the original HL should not cost $10. That's horseshit. Ditto for charging more to buy the orange box items individually (although, that move, while greedy, does lend into my theory about the "foreign copy controversy" being a Valve plan from day one to weed out pirated copies, ala what they did with HL2.) than to just buy the orange box. However, for the vast majority of the rest of their games, they're $5 less than you'd find in the stores. A discount, but that's not enough, true. Particularly since we're not getting anything physical.

I'm convinced that EA has their hands on Steam as well

Nah. There's not a single EA developed game in there. Since EA is a publisher, publishing their games through Steam makes no sense. You're giving up profit you don't have to give up and giving it to a competitor. I've heard EA is working on their own Steam. Ditto for other publishers. Hell, Microsoft already has it and it's called X-Box Live and get this, THEY CHARGE YOU FOR IT.

And yes, I will stop playing games all together if EA eventually takes over the whole industry.

And that's why I was saying people should do more than boycott. Don't let your hobby be destroyed by some corporate greed or whatever. We always bash the UN for its apathy, but in this area, aren't we guilty of the same?

And yes, I will stop playing games all together if EA eventually takes over the whole industry.

In that specific case...I would agree.

I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but if you get economic value from something, you should provide economic value in return.

If you seriously have issues with what they're doing, just don't buy it.

Go look throughout this forum and you'll see that's been my stance since day one.

If you make a piece of shit and release it onto the public, you deserve to have it pirated.

If you make a masterpiece, you deserve to have it supported.

That's been my only real complaint about piracy. Sometimes pirates need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they need to support the people who make good games or the hobby suffers.

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:15 pm**

Instead of the Orange Box, I just ordered "Enemy Territory: Quake Wars," instead.

Until I see some sort of satisfactory explanation for what happened.

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:25 pm**

I'm searching the web, but I can't see that there has been any resolution to this, yet.

All current threads addressing it on the Steam forums are locked.

One person claims to have owned TF2 before the orange box, then bought the Orange Box from a company in Thailand, then had his TF2 deactivated along with everything else.

But.... I can't imagine a whole shitload of American gamers shop at a Thai game store...
http://www.zest.co.th/www/main/index.php

But maybe they do and I'm just old and lame.

Here's an article about it from the COnsumerist.
http://consumerist.com/consume....690.php

This is peeps talking about where to get the good prices for it...
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums....start=0

http://digg.com/pc_game....ox_keys

Yeah i bought a CD version of half-life 2 game of the year edition 9+ months ago from Thailand. I still have the box in my room.
This week i find my all of my Half life 2 games disabled, no CS, No HL2, nothing except the original half life on my account. This is after i bought a legit version of the orange box from Steampowered.com
WTF is this BS.
You cant retroactively punish 9month old customers who has a whole range of games on the steam system???
What am I supposed to do?

Edited By GORDON on 1194054170

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:34 pm**

That website is refunding peeps who got screwed over by Valve. At least one company involved in this has good customer service...

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:46 pm**

TPRJones wrote:With the Steam service, you can't purchase a game. You only rent them for an indeterminate length of time for a one-time fee. As long as they control your access to it you simply do not own your copy of it.

With my recent purchase of my dozenth Steam game, I thought it only fair to come back to this thread and admit to being sold on Steam.

Although, in my defense, I still have not (and probably never will) paid full price for anything on Steam. Because I don't feel like I own these games. I just rent them without a recurring fee. I haven't paid more than $10 for anything on Steam yet, and probably never will as I view it more like a movie ticket than a DVD purchase in terms of ownership.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:56 pm**

I'm OK with STEAM, but I still think it is a ticking bomb. I don't think it will be around forever, and every person who bought a boxed game that requires STEAM for activation is going to get screwed. Assuming they ever want to replay it. Which I do.

I don't have the new mindset. When I buy a game, I expect it to be playable forever. I want my great grandchildren to be able to load it on a Windows emulator in 150 years and play it. Steam will not be around forever.

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