Welcome to Thunderdome

I also love that they basically ignored Cyborg because he sucks.

On his worst day, Cyborg would bitchslap Hawkeye into the pavement on his best day.

Malcolm wrote:

I also love that they basically ignored Cyborg because he sucks.

On his worst day, Cyborg would bitchslap Hawkeye into the pavement on his best day.

Cyborg's name might as well be Token Cyborg.

How is he going to bitch slap Hawkeye? He doesn't have high speed or the ability to close a gap rapidly. One EMP arrow and the fight is over.

Leisher wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

I also love that they basically ignored Cyborg because he sucks.

On his worst day, Cyborg would bitchslap Hawkeye into the pavement on his best day.

Cyborg's name might as well be Token Cyborg.

How is he going to bitch slap Hawkeye? He doesn't have high speed or the ability to close a gap rapidly. One EMP arrow and the fight is over.

You just made my argument for me. One dude has arrows. The other has fucking lasers.

Malcolm wrote:

Leisher wrote:

Malcolm wrote: On his worst day, Cyborg would bitchslap Hawkeye into the pavement on his best day.

Cyborg's name might as well be Token Cyborg.

How is he going to bitch slap Hawkeye? He doesn't have high speed or the ability to close a gap rapidly. One EMP arrow and the fight is over.

You just made my argument for me. One dude has arrows. The other has fucking lasers.

Lasers that he can't hit shit with despite having all this great technology.

Hawkeye ftw.

Find the waiter? Yeah, that's about all he's good for.

Listen, this is a spoiler, but is it really?

Nobody thinks _______ is staying dead, right? Especially when the actor playing him is tweeting out pictures of what he'll be wearing in Justice League.

Yeah, but when are they adding Lobo?

Deathstroke is in.

You know how Affleck has been publicly saying a lot lately that he won't do The Batman unless the script is good?

Lots of folks have chalked that up to him demanding good work. Now there's a new theory. Rumor has it that Justice League is a "mess". Peeps speculating that Ben knows this and is ready to ditch the DCU because he doesn't want to be associated with failure after failure.

WTF is Geoff Johns doing? I thought he would right the ship, but it seems Zach Snyder has no idea what he's doing. Fire him. Fire Leto. Give Justice League to Nolan or JJ if you have to get everyone excited and on board again. Hire Richard Blank as the new Joker.

Spend whatever you need to spend because if this movie sucks like the others then you're done. People will have already seen your characters on the screen and together. If they don't have a compelling story to bring them back they'll wait to rent it.

Does Chris Nolan want anything to do with it? You sure he's the guy for this job?

Malcolm wrote:Does Chris Nolan want anything to do with it? You sure he's the guy for this job?

He probably doesn't, and if he's smart wouldn't. His legacy is cemented and coming back could ruin it. I'm more attacking Snyder because he is clearly not the guy. I think Snyder can make an amazing movie based on a comic (300) and his visual style can be beautiful (Suckerpunch), but he doesn't understand these characters and he doesn't know how to make the film look.

Supposedly WW is shit, as well.

http://www.screengeek.net/2017/01/16/ru ... disasters/

Guy with bad track record claims he's talked to two people who say good things about WW and JL.

Not exactly a great endorsement.

Affleck wants out.

There has to be a documentary in the works detailing the difference between Marvel and DC's film lines, right? This is just fascinating.

Marvel had the balls to fire a big name director who wasn't playing their game. DC just seems to be intent on letting Zach Snyder drive their property into the ground.

Also, I've heard the Geoff Johns/Affleck written Batman script was shit on by WB suits. Meanwhile, over at Disney they stay the fuck out of the way and let their creators create. Who would you rather work for? You think Affleck is scouring Marvel comics looking for a role to play?

I think people are getting a little over excited about the Marvel movies. Kind of like looking at the old SNL and remembering a few great skits (that everyone remembered) and forgetting all the crap that those good ones were sandwiched between. Don't get me wrong, they are doing way better than the DC line, but that's a pretty low bar.

Iron Man: Great!
Iron Man 2: Good
Iron Man 3: Average to poor

Thor: Good
Thor 2: Average to poor (had to go back and look up the plot outline this was so forgettable)

Captain America: Good
Captain America 2: Great
Capatin America 3: Great
I think the Captain America series will end up being the only series that ranks above average all the way through, and I was never a big fan of the comic.

Antman: Average

Guardians of The Galaxy: Great

Doctor Strange: Good

Avengers: Great!
Avengers 2: Good to average

I think the Marvel movies in a lot of ways are benefiting the same way the original Star Wars trilogy benefited. In a cinema world bereft of even semi-decent sci-fi, a well made film gets elevated probably a notch or two higher than it otherwise would. But now the super hero special effects are old hat (even The Flash on TV is providing impressive special effects on a weekly basis) the films really need to step up story and acting-wise to deliver. And the DC films are struggling with that. And some of the Marvel properties are having issues as well now that some of the shiny glow of newness is fading.

True, not all of the Marvel movies are home runs, but none of them have been disasters yet, either. That's interesting considering how many there have been.

Additionally, you can no longer judge them as individual movies, they are part of a larger whole, and so far that has been very successful in building a movie universe and spending a lot of time fleshing it out. So far that IS a home run, as far as I am concerned.

In conclusion, the DC movies seem to be run by executives and retards.

You're oversimplifying what's being done.

This isn't just a bunch of movies under one banner. This is a bunch of movies under one banner with shared continuity and telling a larger story. This is uncharted territory. This is the reinvention of cinema. That's why so many other studios are scrambling to copy it.

WB/DC's failures in recreating what Marvel is doing is a testament to how good Marvel is at what they're doing. By any measure, DC should EASILY have been able to capture the same magic and audience, but they've failed. Their inability to get everyone on the same page, understand their own product, and reliance upon "names" has doomed them.

Look at DC. It's a who's who of big name directors and actors. That is WB's influence. You just know some movie suits thought this would be a slamdunk and adding big names would be icing on the cake. WB simply didn't understand what they were doing, and should have backed away like Disney has with Marvel.

Look at the actors DC has used and all the controversy surrounding them.
-Affleck going through a high profile cheating scandal/divorce and said to have really become a major asshole. This guy was in Mallrats and Chasing Amy (among others) and now hasn't spoken to Kevin Smith in years. Now rumors persist that he wants out because he sees DC as a sinking ship.
-Jared Leto. "If I told you a story about him being a massive dick, you wouldn't question it." Look at everything with his version of the Joker, how it bombed, and how pissed he was about screen time.
-Will Smith. Look at how much screen time he demanded in a team movie. Now go look at how Robert Downey Jr takes a backseat to his co-stars in marvel movies.

Those are just some examples.

On the Marvel side, you've got them signing people who have then gone on to become bigger stars. Downey Jr still wasn't "back" until after Iron Man. Pratt wasn't yet a big name when he signed on for Guardians. Marvel made Evens. ScarJo is probably the biggest name by far. But these actors all love their roles. You don't hear them complaining about screen time or working conditions or scripts. They're as in love with what's going on as everyone else. There have been some frustrations over pay when Marvel first got started, but you don't hear about that anymore.

What proof about what I'm saying? Look at DC television. It's run like Marvel runs their movies and it's doing great. Again, this is WB's fault. Whoever their movie suits are suck. Instead of continuity between the two, they create two universes. This is confusing fans. (Ironically, it's one of the biggest complaints about the continuity in the books. Too many alternate realities and different versions of heroes and villains.)

Meanwhile, Marvel ties them all together. The negative? Keeping track of it all is the biggest, but Disney/Marvel is smart and put one man in charge of it all. The other negative? The TV shows can't really move forward until the movies do, but I'd argue that's a strength. Why? Well, it has hurt Agents of SHIELD badly. They can't progress the story and their budget will always look weak next to the movies.

However, those Netflix Marvel shows are outstanding...with one exception. Marvel brilliantly went with more grounded characters so they didn't need to match effects or stall the plots. When you have street level fighters dealing with their own shit locally and just make reference to the bigger events from the films it's perfect.

Like I said, you're tremendously underselling what Marvel is doing. Hell, look at the "holy" Star Wars saga. 3 terrible prequels, 1 fantastic original, 1 perfect sequel, and mixed reactions on the third in the original sage (fucking muppets!). Those were followed up by a reboot that people complain was just the same story line as the original film. No Marvel movie has repeated a plot and there have been zero Ewoks.

Also, your ratings for each movie are off. Iron Man 3 was good to average. Thor 2 sucked. Captain America was great. Ditto for Antman.

You also forgot Hulk which was HORRIBLE and The Incredible Hulk which was better than remembered, but dragged down by Edward Norton. (Not that he did a bad job, but was a dick, so Marvel got rid of him. Ditto for Terrance Howard, which goes back to what I was saying about who they hire as actors.)

But hey, even going by your ratings, go find me ANY property that has the same level of success. You can't. Marvel has created a new pinnacle.

True, not all of the Marvel movies are home runs, but none of them have been disasters yet, either. That's interesting considering how many there have been.

Additionally, you can no longer judge them as individual movies, they are part of a larger whole, and so far that has been very successful in building a movie universe and spending a lot of time fleshing it out. So far that IS a home run, as far as I am concerned.

In conclusion, the DC movies seem to be run by executives and retards.

I rambled. He hit the nail on the head much quicker.

Vince wrote: Guardians of The Galaxy: Great

The difference between this flick and Suicide Squad is still staggering. I'd also like to note that even Fox has managed to hit a massive home run in comics-based movie land before WB. If I told you that you five years ago that you could invest in one of two movies, one being the DC comics version of The Dirty Dozen with one the most insanely popular villains in all of history and his gun moll, and the other being headlined by an animated, anthropomorphic space raccoon, his talking tree friend, the green chick from that one Star Trek original series episode, a former pro wrestler, and the other guy from that Vince Vaughn movie where he fathered hundreds of children due to a hilarious sperm bank mistake ... which would you have picked?

...but none of them have been disasters yet, either. That's interesting considering how many there have been.

In terms of finances, yes. Some of the movies have sucked. I'm looking at you, Dr. Strange and Thor 2.

You also forgot Hulk which was HORRIBLE...

Wasn't that way before Feige came on the scene? I think that's when we're all starting the clock.

Fox

You mean Marvel? Fox's movies, while being financial successes, have not been critical successes. The X-Men franchise is pretty fucking bad, but makes money. Ghost Rider was laughable. Fantastic Four was so bad they gave up. Deadpool is the only thing they got right AND THE FUCKING STUDIO DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. (Is there a sentence that perfectly sums up the Hollywood system better than that one?)

Sony has done ok with Spider-Man, but again, not really great with critics. No larger story line.

Wasn't that way before Feige came on the scene? I think that's when we're all starting the clock.

I think everyone considers Iron Man to be the start of the Marvel Universe. So yea, Hulk was pre-Feige.

Leisher wrote: Deadpool is the only thing they got right AND THE FUCKING STUDIO DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

That's one more than WB.

Green Lantern
Man of Steel
Wussman and Pussyman meet Wonder Woman and the Thing's Big Brother
Suicide Squad

Wonder Woman and the next Batman flick are looking even worse. How many crappy movies are they prepared to make before they sell the rights to someone else for a tenth of what it's worth and then watch them turn it around a decade later?