No idea how Tor does what it does as I haven't read up on it, but I'm seeing folks push it hard today due to the Repubs' vote about letting ISP sell your history.
Generally, I don't give a rat's ass as I know I'm being tracked by multiple sites. Proof is that I'm still seeing a LOT of monitor ads. However, I don't need a lot of porn ads. Just surfing our Random Images thread could cause us to get those.
Net Neutrality
Net Neutrality
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Net Neutrality
Yeah, I definitely get the targeted ads in google from surfing amazon/etc. Haven't seen porn ads through them though. It's creepy, and I hate to have grown used to it. At least it's usually just pictures of stuff I've been shopping online.
The next level shit I'd worry more about is it going to organizations who'd start calling/mailing/making house calls when they buy the family ISP history. Given the already shitty security some of these databases have, it seems like It'll roll down into something worse.
Net Neutrality
That's not quite the way it was decided, though that's how it's being spun. They pretty much were saying the government can't be picking winners and losers and deny an ISP from selling your browsing data but continue to allow Google and others to do so. I'm not a fan of them selling my data, but I'm less a fan of a protected business class for Google's benefit.Troy wrote: Senate voted today to allow ISPs to sell or share your internet browsing history without your permission.
Fun new world we live in. I fear this is the tip of the iceberg as far as the end of Net Neutrality.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... vertisers/
For me, I use Ghostery and don't see the ads.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
I guess the difference, to me, is that you have some very obvious choices to not use Google or Facebook and still get search and social media. I have a grand total of one choice for my ISP. And I live literally in the center of what is supposed to be the tech capital of the US.Vince wrote:That's not quite the way it was decided, though that's how it's being spun. They pretty much were saying the government can't be picking winners and losers and deny an ISP from selling your browsing data but continue to allow Google and others to do so. I'm not a fan of them selling my data, but I'm less a fan of a protected business class for Google's benefit.Troy wrote: Senate voted today to allow ISPs to sell or share your internet browsing history without your permission.
Fun new world we live in. I fear this is the tip of the iceberg as far as the end of Net Neutrality.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... vertisers/
For me, I use Ghostery and don't see the ads.
Net Neutrality
I would challenge that you have more than one option. Just one that really meets your needs the way you want. See if you have Exede available in your area.Troy wrote:I guess the difference, to me, is that you have some very obvious choices to not use Google or Facebook and still get search and social media. I have a grand total of one choice for my ISP. And I live literally in the center of what is supposed to be the tech capital of the US.Vince wrote:That's not quite the way it was decided, though that's how it's being spun. They pretty much were saying the government can't be picking winners and losers and deny an ISP from selling your browsing data but continue to allow Google and others to do so. I'm not a fan of them selling my data, but I'm less a fan of a protected business class for Google's benefit.Troy wrote: Senate voted today to allow ISPs to sell or share your internet browsing history without your permission.
Fun new world we live in. I fear this is the tip of the iceberg as far as the end of Net Neutrality.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... vertisers/
For me, I use Ghostery and don't see the ads.
You may choose not to use Google, but they are still tracking you. Install Ghostery and see how many sites you go to every day that have Google analytics embedded in their pages. I haven't seen a commercial page yet that doesn't use Google.
Edited to say: But that really isn't at issue. Either your browsing data should be up for sale, or it shouldn't. People just like Google more. Just like for whatever reason Apple forcing you to use their hardware and OS was A-OK, but MS forcing you to have their crappy browser preloaded with Windows was somehow a violation against God and nature.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
I rent, so I can't have a satellite. I can't use the laser system because my hill faces the wrong way. I tried so hard to find more options. I called around so much I finally had a tech at a competing ISP solve my major issue at the time by suggesting a different router with my current ISP.
Comcast just said "shit is slow - you are screwed" more or less when I was calling them. Competitor followed up by sending me a packet about how they'd love to be able to expand, but they can't due to the current legal framework for infrastructure within the city.
I could move, but housing in SF is hard enough to get. My wife devoted two weeks unemployed full-time searching before we found our current spot.
Also I'm confused, are you equating a website tracking IPs across their domains to an ISP giving an advertiser my entire Internet history? That don't seem to be the same.
e: I checked the privacy and data collection pages, Google doesn't share the data collected unless you give them permission through another companies app. They do use that data on their end to show targeted ads to customers who use their (free) services. They DO fork it over if they receive a court order. I assume the ISPs operate that way as well. If this law gets through Congress and President Orange, the ISPs would be free to sell and share your specific, non-aggregated data, on internet usage and app usage.
Source: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html
Comcast just said "shit is slow - you are screwed" more or less when I was calling them. Competitor followed up by sending me a packet about how they'd love to be able to expand, but they can't due to the current legal framework for infrastructure within the city.
I could move, but housing in SF is hard enough to get. My wife devoted two weeks unemployed full-time searching before we found our current spot.
Also I'm confused, are you equating a website tracking IPs across their domains to an ISP giving an advertiser my entire Internet history? That don't seem to be the same.
e: I checked the privacy and data collection pages, Google doesn't share the data collected unless you give them permission through another companies app. They do use that data on their end to show targeted ads to customers who use their (free) services. They DO fork it over if they receive a court order. I assume the ISPs operate that way as well. If this law gets through Congress and President Orange, the ISPs would be free to sell and share your specific, non-aggregated data, on internet usage and app usage.
Source: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html
Last edited by Troy on Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Net Neutrality
The main difference I see is when Google tracks your browsing and sells your data it doesn't have your real name, physical address, phone number, and other such details attached to it. Will the data from the ISPs also be only related to your IP address or will it include all those other personal details?
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Net Neutrality
Now this I agree with. If the ISP is doing nothing more than what Google does, then the FCC has no business stepping in. If they are prohibiting the sale of data that Google and other entities (that I'm sure have been lobbying like hell to have less competition in this realm) already sell, I have a problem with it. The data that's for sale should be for sale across all of these entities or for none of them.TPRJones wrote: The main difference I see is when Google tracks your browsing and sells your data it doesn't have your real name, physical address, phone number, and other such details attached to it. Will the data from the ISPs also be only related to your IP address or will it include all those other personal details?
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
You could go with a cellular modem. Would suck, but you could do it.Troy wrote: I rent, so I can't have a satellite. I can't use the laser system because my hill faces the wrong way. I tried so hard to find more options. I called around so much I finally had a tech at a competing ISP solve my major issue at the time by suggesting a different router with my current ISP.
Comcast just said "shit is slow - you are screwed" more or less when I was calling them. Competitor followed up by sending me a packet about how they'd love to be able to expand, but they can't due to the current legal framework for infrastructure within the city.
I could move, but housing in SF is hard enough to get. My wife devoted two weeks unemployed full-time searching before we found our current spot.
Also I'm confused, are you equating a website tracking IPs across their domains to an ISP giving an advertiser my entire Internet history? That don't seem to be the same.
e: I checked the privacy and data collection pages, Google doesn't share the data collected unless you give them permission through another companies app. They do use that data on their end to show targeted ads to customers who use their (free) services. They DO fork it over if they receive a court order. I assume the ISPs operate that way as well. If this law gets through Congress and President Orange, the ISPs would be free to sell and share your specific, non-aggregated data, on internet usage and app usage.
Source: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html
And yes, I am equating aggregated website tracking to your entire Internet history. You can sell a pound of weed or you can roll joints out of a pound of weed and sell all the joints. Either way you sold a pound of weed. [screwed up URL... ] "BuiltWith says that 69.5 percent of Quantcast’s Top 10,000 sites (based on traffic) are using Google Analytics, and 54.6 percent of the top million websites that it tracks. So I'd say odds are that Google has about 80-90% of your entire browsing history just through Google Analytics. Having used those web tracking tools before, you can get a LOT of info from them.
What is missing from the Google disclosure page is a denial that they sell your browsing information to marketing companies. They do not claim that they don't sell your browsing history in the link you provided. They explain how their ads work and how they don't sell your name, email or payment information. That leaves a whole lot of other stuff open to be sold.
I'm not even positive this FCC regulation has gone into effect yet. From here:
Again, I have no problem with making it illegal. But if you're going to make it illegal, make it illegal. Don't give a pass to companies because you happen to like them.“There is no lawful, factual or sound policy basis to justify a discriminatory approach that treats ISPs differently from some of the largest companies in the Internet ecosystem that engage in similar practices,” said NCTA — The Internet & Television Association, an industry trade group.
But the FCC may have little jurisdiction — or appetite — for regulating the data practices of individual Web companies; Wheeler has repeatedly declined to extend new regulations to the sector.
The different expectations for Internet providers and websites will create confusion among consumers, Republican FCC officials said.
“If the FCC truly believes that these new rules are necessary to protect consumer privacy, then the government now must move forward to ensure uniform regulation of all companies in the Internet ecosystem at the new baseline the FCC has set,” said FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai, who suggested that the Federal Trade Commission could accomplish the task.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
I'm still not sure on this. "We Don't Sell Your Personal Information To Anyone" is the main header on their privacy page. Your browsing information sure seems like it would fall under your personal information? I haven't found anything online to dispute that.Vince wrote: What is missing from the Google disclosure page is a denial that they sell your browsing information to marketing companies. They do not claim that they don't sell your browsing history in the link you provided. They explain how their ads work and how they don't sell your name, email or payment information. That leaves a whole lot of other stuff open to be sold.
Maybe they sell non-personal aggregate information, like the way PornHub publishes top searches in various countries and states?
From what I understand the law would allow personal information to be sold by ISPs. Scary if it's open to interpretation.
Ars Technica Article:
*this specific part is double horseshit, imo. It reads as if the ISP could sell your email address by default. Grandma isn't opting out of this without help.The FCC's privacy rules would require ISPs to get opt-in consent from consumers before selling or sharing personal information including geo-location data, financial and health information, children’s information, Social Security numbers, Web browsing history, app usage history, and the content of communications. Opt-out requirements would have applied to less sensitive data such as e-mail addresses* and service tier information.
The opt-in and opt-out provisions would have taken effect as early as December 4, 2017. The rules would also force ISPs to clearly notify customers about the types of information they collect, specify how they use and share the information, and identify the types of entities they share the information with.
Net Neutrality
Tor is useful until a Tier 1 ISP checks their logs. Then your anonymity depends on your cleverness.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Net Neutrality
All the law does (to the best of my understanding) is allow the ISPs to sell the same information that Google and Facebook are allowed to sell. They are undoing an FCC reg that probably wouldn't have stood up in court anyway. I'd rather we stick to laws (or in this case regulations) making behavior and acts illegal. Not companies. Again, I have no problem with the opt in and opt out rules as long as you have to do the same for all the Google and Facebook pages.Troy wrote:I'm still not sure on this. "We Don't Sell Your Personal Information To Anyone" is the main header on their privacy page. Your browsing information sure seems like it would fall under your personal information? I haven't found anything online to dispute that.
Maybe they sell non-personal aggregate information, like the way PornHub publishes top searches in various countries and states?
From what I understand the law would allow personal information to be sold by ISPs. Scary if it's open to interpretation.
And I don't know for sure what Google sells and what they don't. They were just very specific on that page you linked. And for me that really isn't the point. If you want the activity banned, then ban the activity. End the crony capitalism.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
It hit me this morning that Google(Alphabet) Is an ISP nowadays. I wonder if the current law actually applies to them already?
Net Neutrality
Dunno, they are my ISP. And fuck it, for 1Gb they can sell naked pics of me online.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Net Neutrality
I'm sure it does on the ISP side, but not the web side.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
I really don't have a problem with this stance. Not mine, but not something that gets me worked up. Inconsistency in it is what bothers me.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Net Neutrality
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Net Neutrality
$500M goal????
PS: In the event that we don't raise enough money to buy the data, all proceeds will go to the ACLU to help fight to protect all Americans' rights. Thanks.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Net Neutrality
With every other piece of bullshit legislation, they usually make sure they are exempt... ie, Obamacare. I wonder if they thought ahead of time for this, too.
If not, I'm sure the addendum is coming.
If not, I'm sure the addendum is coming.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Net Neutrality
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”