The [s]First[/s] [s]Only[/s] Second Trump term

[Malcolm]

If they made decent cars and if the state of Michigan weren't going to hemorrhage any profits due to incompetence and embezzlement...

[Malcolm]

If they made decent cars and if the state of Michigan weren't going to hemorrhage any profits due to incompetence and embezzlement...

[GORDON]

Tons of criticism how the loss of tax revenue is going to hurt the country more than saving 700 jobs.

[Leisher]

Tons of criticism how the loss of tax revenue is going to hurt the country more than saving 700 jobs.

Like I said, he could cure cancer and get criticized.

Shouldn't the goal be to increase the number of jobs and reduce the amount of tax revenue to government needs (to pay people who don't have jobs)?

[GORDON]

Rosie needs a little reality check visit from the Secret Service.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ros ... a5945c3b9c

[Malcolm]

Like I said, he could cure cancer and get criticized.

I'm extremely excited to have back in our midst a company that:
(i) fucked up so badly a few years back, they needed a government bailout and
(ii) are posterboys for "why excessive entitlement doesn't work" and
(iii) works in an industry almost synonymous with the union/mob

[Leisher]

Like I said, he could cure cancer and get criticized.

I'm extremely excited to have back in our midst a company that:
(i) fucked up so badly a few years back, they needed a government bailout and
(ii) are posterboys for "why excessive entitlement doesn't work" and
(iii) works in an industry almost synonymous with the union/mob

You must be talking about GM? Chrysler?

Ford didn't need a bailout. They knew what they were doing and were cutting costs in anticipation of the economy going south.

Convicted felon is near Trump, so it's a big deal. Let's all pretend Obama didn't have them around him too.

[GORDON]

A domestic terrorist/murderer wrote Obama's official biography, didn't he?

[Leisher]

Well, Hillary Clinton was his Secretary of State...

A domestic terrorist/murderer wrote Obama's official biography, didn't he?

Bill Ayers? I know he and Obama were (are?) tight, but I have no idea if he wrote a book about him.

But he's not the only convicted felon who was close to Obama.

Interesting how none of that stuff mattered until a Republican started doing it. No media bias, right?

[Leisher]

[Vince]

Interesting how none of that stuff mattered until a Republican started doing it. No media bias, right?

I agree. And equally sad, it apparently ONLY mattered to Republicans because a Democrat was doing it.

[GORDON]

Well, I think there is a difference. I am a registered republican, and I don't like any corruption from either side, and i like to think my condemnation of it is a blanket covering all "sides." The difference is the media. They've all clearly chosen sides, and Fox stands alone on one of them. In my understanding of it, we mainly criticize the clear bias of players who claim to be unbiased, when we forget that they don't exist to keep the public informed of the facts, they exist to make ad revenue in any way possible.

[GORDON]

And furthermore.... this push from the left to eliminate "fake news" from the internet has me concerned. For a decade the democrats have been utilizing social media to its full potential. Now that the right is catching up, suddenly we need to filter out their messages as "fake news."

It bugs me, and it'll probably happen.

[Malcolm]

Ford didn't need a bailout. They knew what they were doing and were cutting costs in anticipation of the economy going south.

Fine, if you want to split hairs. It suckled at the gov't teat, just like the other two failures.

In November 2008, the Big 3 automakers asked Congress for $50 billion to avoid bankruptcy and the loss of three million jobs. GM had become so desperate for cash that it delayed incentive program reimbursements to dealers. Ford, on the other hand, didn't really need the funds. It only asked to be included so it wouldn't suffer by competing with subsidized companies.
...
Ford Credit used funds from the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility (TALF). That was a government program for auto, student, and other consumer loans.
...
Although Ford did not receive TARP funds, it did receive government loans. It requested a $9 billion line-of-credit from the government. In return, it pledged to spend $14 billion on new technologies.
...
On June 23, 2009, Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Energy Department's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program. In return, it pledged to accelerate development of both hybrid and battery-powered vehicles, close dealerships, and sell Volvo.
...
Many argue that Ford needed the funds to sustain its cash flow during the recession. Ford says it was in better shape than the other two because it had mortgaged its assets in 2006 to raise $23.6 billion. It used the loans to retool it product lineup to focus on smaller, energy-efficient vehicles. It got the United Automobile Workers to agree it could finance half of a new retiree health care trust with company stock.

[Leisher]

And furthermore.... this push from the left to eliminate "fake news" from the internet has me concerned. For a decade the democrats have been utilizing social media to its full potential. Now that the right is catching up, suddenly we need to filter out their messages as "fake news."

It bugs me, and it'll probably happen.

It is happening and has happened.

Look at Fox News or as the left wing nut jobs call it: "Faux News". They've been campaigning to make Fox seem like a less legitimate source of news for years, and in a way it has worked. They did this strictly through public shaming and mockery. They didn't use facts because as has been proven in studies, Fox is actually the most unbiased news source (among the U.S. networks) despite still obviously leaning right.

Fox is no more corrupt or incompetent than CNN, yet CNN is seen as some bastion of journalistic integrity.

So while I absolutely think "fake news" is a problem, I also worry about the folks who will be determining what's fake and what's not.

One way to make news becoming more legit is to simply force some sort of source/proof. End the mad rush to get clicks/ratings. Otherwise, you will NEVER be able to get rid of bullshit news...unless you control all media outlets...

And all that Ford stuff just shows me that Ford knew what they were doing. They didn't need the money. They took it because the government offered it. So I stand by my original point about saving jobs and you getting the name of the company wrong.

[TPRJones]

They've been campaigning to make Fox seem like a less legitimate source of news for years, and in a way it has worked. They did this strictly through public shaming and mockery.

I'm pretty sure the leading cause of reduction in Fox viewership is death from old age, not anything the liberals are doing.

Fox is no more corrupt or incompetent than CNN, yet CNN is seen as some bastion of journalistic integrity.

Really? By who? All the old people are just into Fox and all the young people get their news online. CNN is only watched now by people in waiting rooms and airports with no way to change the channel.

One way to make news becoming more legit is to simply force some sort of source/proof. End the mad rush to get clicks/ratings. Otherwise, you will NEVER be able to get rid of bullshit news...unless you control all media outlets...

There's no way to do any of this. Nor should you want to, not if you have any love for the first amendment.

Long term this is a problem that will be fixed by competition in the marketplace. Individuals with a desire to be journalists are already striking out on their own instead of becoming tools of the corporate machines, and as crowd-funding (like Patreon) continues to grow it's only a matter of time before the biggest names in news are no longer things like CNN, The Times, and Newsweek but rather individuals that are well-known for their skill and integrity. It's all part of the economic turmoil in transitioning to the digital economy; the period where advertising pays for everything is going to start to come to an end.

[Malcolm]

It's all part of the economic turmoil in transitioning to the digital economy; the period where advertising pays for everything is going to start to come to an end.

That's hilarious.

[TPRJones]

It's already happening for entertainment. For 2016, 3 of the top 5 most-watched shows were from HBO and Netflix. Only 2 of the 5 were paid for with advertising revenue. I'm just saying I think the same trend is going to inevitably be applied to news media as well, and there it can make a real difference in the quality of the reporting in the same way that it has made for more creative freedom in the entertainment sector.

[GORDON]

I'm pretty sure the leading cause of reduction in Fox viewership is death from old age, not anything the liberals are doing.

The only thing I can figure you are saying... and you say it again in the next paragraph... is that old people are smart, and young people are stupid.

[TPRJones]

Nothing I said indicated such.