The [s]First[/s] [s]Only[/s] Second Trump term

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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

Who the fuck hasn't learned "criticize in private and praise in public"?
Effing fuck that noise. Dumb-asses and idiots don't get special privileges. If you talk shit, expect pain either physically or otherwise. You don't get to hide behind closed doors, position, or etiquette.
It can do those things, but those are not its only purposes.
Art, in general, is obfuscated communication. It is there to make you ill at ease and think.
Public shaming doesn't work. When will people get that?
I keep asking myself that whenever a state in the bible belt passes a law that requires pregnant mothers to get a few ultrasounds and stare at them before they allow an abortion. However, as long as other people give a shit about what other people think, social pressure has potential for good or bad.
It was about using him as a prop to make their own statement to the world.
Then why are people bitching at them for doing pretty much what Drumpf did?
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Leisher
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Leisher »

Effing fuck that noise. Dumb-asses and idiots don't get special privileges. If you talk shit, expect pain either physically or otherwise. You don't get to hide behind closed doors, position, or etiquette.
What? You lost me here. I have no idea how you took a very famous quote about motivating people and turned it into violence after someone talks shit?
It is there to make you ill at ease and think.
Again, you lose me with "ill at ease". I guess no art is intended to make people feel good, laugh, smile, or have any other emotion except to feel like shit?
I keep asking myself that whenever a state in the bible belt passes a law that requires pregnant mothers to get a few ultrasounds and stare at them before they allow an abortion.
A tactic I don't agree with either, but that's not public shaming. Also, two wrongs don't make a right.
However, as long as other people give a shit about what other people think, social pressure has potential for good or bad.
Not sure how this reinforces your point? The sun will rise tomorrow too.
Then why are people bitching at them for doing pretty much what Drumpf did?
What play was Trump putting on that the cast of Hamilton took their families to go see to support Trump only to have him publicly call them out afterwards?

That's not defending him as he's clearly acting like a jackass in the aftermath, and you'd have to be blind to think he doesn't say bad things, but he didn't do what they did specifically. And again, just because he's an asshole doesn't mean his opponents should act like assholes. Their goal is to change minds. That's not achieved by being dicks to people or forcing one sided conversations.
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TPRJones
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TPRJones »

Their goal is to change minds.
Not at all. To them, all the people capable of rational thought already agree with them and everyone who disagrees with them can never be swayed because their God has made them too stupid. Their goal is to preach to the choir that was - in this instance - the rest of the audience. Goal accomplished.
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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

Who the fuck hasn't learned "criticize in private and praise in public"?
What? You lost me here. I have no idea how you took a very famous quote about motivating people and turned it into violence after someone talks shit?
Dumb-asses should be publicly called out. I give no deference to idiots to let them save face.
I guess no art is intended to make people feel good, laugh, smile, or have any other emotion except to feel like shit?
Art thrives on conflict. While the things you mention are represented (think the entire cinematic genre of comedy) in various media, they just don't have the impact of something made with friction, pain, brashness, effrontery, or just good old fashioned not giving a fuck. It's one reason why a band's best albums are usually early on and the shittiest ones are typically after rehab.
A tactic I don't agree with either, but that's not public shaming.
Bullshit it's not. It's in the same vein as forcing someone see a counselor before they get one. Whatever asswipe wrote that law is hoping that your having to confront your decision in view of some other third-party member of society (even a nameless medical professional) is enough to have you back down and make up your mind for you via indirect intimidation.
What play was Trump putting on that the cast of Hamilton took their families to go see to support Trump only to have him publicly call them out afterwards?
Drumpf used Pence to get votes, period. Politics is inherently about using others. I don't expect actors or performers of any fucking sort to treat their audience with respect. I don't buy into the "they're our guests" line. They're spectators who paid money to see spectacle; they aren't members of your extended family you grudgingly put up with during the holiday season. The ultimate troll. Sam Beckett got pissed that the mega-rich bought up all the tickets to his last play so that your average theatre-goer had zero chance of ever getting one. He presold all the seats to his next play months in advance to the same elite douchebags he despised pretty openly. The first audience was treated to a 25-second lesson in swindling ... which was the entire length of time between curtains up and down.
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

Won't jail Hillary.

Also softening on climate change.
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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

TheCatt wrote:Won't jail Hillary.

Also softening on climate change.
I look forward to him waffling on every major campaign promise he made while his base pretends they saw this shit coming all along.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
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Leisher
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Leisher »

Malcolm wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Won't jail Hillary.

Also softening on climate change.
I look forward to him waffling on every major campaign promise he made while his base pretends they saw this shit coming all along.
Are we talking about Trump or Obama?

Malcolm, I'll get to your response tomorrow.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
GORDON
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by GORDON »

Leisher wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Won't jail Hillary.

Also softening on climate change.
I look forward to him waffling on every major campaign promise he made while his base pretends they saw this shit coming all along.
Are we talking about Trump or Obama?
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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

Leisher wrote:Are we talking about Trump or Obama?
Quote of the year.
Malcolm, I'll get to your response tomorrow.
Bring it.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Vince »

If Trump doesn't divest himself from his business dealings, this is going to be a short Presidency. Impeachment talk will hit in his first year. Serious legit sounding impeachment talk.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
TPRJones
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TPRJones »

I can't see any possibility that he'd be willing to divest himself of anything.

Although I can see him trying to hand some things off to his kids, maybe. Maybe.
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TheCatt
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

Honestly, the things Trump has done so far (aside from divestiture), 1) Are much better than I expected from him, and 2) Are certainly better than Hillary would have done.
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Vince
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Vince »

TheCatt wrote:Honestly, the things Trump has done so far (aside from divestiture), 1) Are much better than I expected from him, and 2) Are certainly better than Hillary would have done.
I'd agree with this. So far I'm hopeful. Also thinking he's not the one making these decisions.
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Leisher
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote:Honestly, the things Trump has done so far (aside from divestiture), 1) Are much better than I expected from him, and 2) Are certainly better than Hillary would have done.
My favorite part is how the MSM mocked him as being inexperienced and how we shouldn't want him dealing with things like national security, so he's letting Pence do most of that. Now they're ripping him for not dealing with national security.

Trump could cure cancer and the MSM and the left wing nutjobs would execute him for it. "Look at all the jobs you've cost us in the medical field!"
Dumb-asses should be publicly called out. I give no deference to idiots to let them save face.
This is why you'd be a terrible leader, and more than likely murdered by your own men.

There are times to call people out, but if you're trying to change minds, that's not how you do it.
Art thrives on conflict. While the things you mention are represented (think the entire cinematic genre of comedy) in various media, they just don't have the impact of something made with friction, pain, brashness, effrontery, or just good old fashioned not giving a fuck. It's one reason why a band's best albums are usually early on and the shittiest ones are typically after rehab.
This is all opinion and impossible to prove. Some people do better work under stress, some people don't.
Bullshit it's not. It's in the same vein as forcing someone see a counselor before they get one. Whatever asswipe wrote that law is hoping that your having to confront your decision in view of some other third-party member of society (even a nameless medical professional) is enough to have you back down and make up your mind for you via indirect intimidation.
That's not public shaming. One person is not "the public". The person is not being forced to make a choice in public or have their name smeared to others. You can ramble on about what they're making them do, but that doesn't prove your point. Let me know when they start listing their names in the paper.
I don't expect actors or performers of any fucking sort to treat their audience with respect.
Again, just opinion. I'll point out that other gay actors have condemned what the cast of Hamilton did, and I'll give their opinion more weight than yours here.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

I was reading an article about how successful people tend to be civil, and respectful, etc... And tend to get promoted more and are more likely to be more productive and better leaders, etc. And make more $
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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

TheCatt wrote:I was reading an article about how successful people tend to be civil, and respectful, etc... And tend to get promoted more and are more likely to be more productive and better leaders, etc. And make more $
Bullshit. I'll write an article later to back my position. From everything I've seen, excessive money tends to make people cash-drunk and stupid. Their finances insulate them from reality the same way of bottle of Jack would. Tragically, your liver can't filter the former as reliably as the latter.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
TheCatt
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

Sure. Be sure to have data and sources.
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Malcolm
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Malcolm »

TheCatt wrote:Sure. Be sure to have data and sources.
Drumpf and every major league sports asshole that plays second- and third-string for five years earning six figures, washes out, and ends up on skid row somehow. Douchebags have money. Their earning power means dick to me with respect to the rest of their personalities.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by TheCatt »

Treasury and Commerce nominees say no tax cut for the rich.
“There will be no absolute tax cut for the upper class,” he said. "There will be a big tax cut for the middle class.”
That's counter to everything that's been put out so far. We'll see.
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Vince
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Re: The First Trump term.

Post by Vince »

I think Trump will govern as a Democrat since he's been one most of his life, so I could see this.
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