Kayle - The Wing-Ed Bitch

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GORDON
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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:01 pm

I typically open with the Q, the damage/slowdown.... that is to say, in the 3 PVP games so far, I open with Q. Immediately I will hit E for splash damaging any nearby minions or enemies. Then I hit my active items. Then I am looking to heal/Invuln whomever needs it, until my Q refreshes.

That's my thought process.

And I am not trying to reinvent anything, I am looking to find the best item loadout that suits both the champ and my play style. I aint going to go super crazy scooty with it, so everyone chill.
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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:03 pm

And like I said, only 3 games so far. The one game where I was instigating and being aggressive, I got raped so hard he actually bypassed my ass completely and raped an entirely new hole of his creation.

I did better the second two games when I let one of y'all start the fight, and supported with damage and healing.




Edited By GORDON on 1365534244
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Leisher
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Postby Leisher » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:09 pm

If we can get you fed one game, I'd like to try the push down the middle tactic. You led, with the rest of us following. You lead with your E, whomever comes at you, you hit with your Q and we all focus.
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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:31 pm

Yes, I would say once I am fed and built, I would be able to lead better with the life steal and spell vamp.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:56 pm

I don't know you lost the first game because of your build. I think it's more the fact that you can't face darius.

Why worry about the fact that your Q uses both AD and AP as bonus? Instead of reading it as "I need to have both for maximum effectiveness" read it as "It allows me to use either or". With 50 AD and 50 AP, your damage bonus is 100. Or, you can have 100 AP 0 AD and have 100 points in bonus damage. Any time I see a Kayle dominate, it's because she's got you slowed and then her ranged attack is beating the shit out of you. Isn't that all AP bonus time?

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GORDON
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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:11 pm

The ranged attack is indeed ap bonus, but it isn't 1:1 and the same points in AD WOULD be 1:1. The AP bonus is something like .5 or .66.

And the ult doesnt factor in ap at all.

I would say ap and ad are both pretty equal in importance to kayle.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:14 pm

What you are saying is making no sense, so I looked her up myself:

Q = 1:1 AP bonus and/or 1:1 BONUS AD. So, not all of your AD, only bonus AD you are getting from items you are buying.
W = Heals with an AP bonus, no AD bonus.
E = Damage on target at 40% AP only bonus. Splash damage is +40% AP and 20-40% AD.
R = Shield only, no other effects and no AD/AP bonus.

So, at all times, the AP bonus is >= the AD bonus. There are no abilities where the percent of AD bonus is greater than AP. But the percent bonus of AP is greater than AD during early game on her E. Which is what gives her the splash damage and ranged attack. What you posted above is incorrect.

The question becomes, while buying items can you build so that your total AP+BONUS AD > AD or AP bonuses alone?


Nashor's Tooth:
65 AP bonus
+50% AS
20% cooldown reduction
2500 Gold

Hextech
45 AD
65 AP
Life steal/Spell vamp
Active - 150 + 40% AP (when you remember to use it)

So the question becomes, is 45 AD bonus + the active > +50% attack speed? I don't know. Don't feel like looking up all her stats (base AD, AP and AS at any given level) and figuring it out. If she's an initiator, I could see Hextech working better with the life steal. Pure DPS, I can see Nashor's being better. Depends on what the rest of the build looks like as well. I see Guinsoo's Rageblade giving AD, AP and AS plus more AS and some life steal/spell vamp when she's hurt. Hex and Rageblade might make a good pair. But going full on AP and attacking from range is another route. And I want to say, when I see Kayles wreck, it's at range.

But, who knows. Knowing exactly what bonuses stack and where is step number one! Review your champ's abilities so you know exactly where things apply. I have no idea where you pulled the numbers/info from your post above.

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Postby Cakedaddy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:18 pm

Only other thing I'll add is that building high numbers of AP is way easier than building high AD. The AP bonus boosts your heal up too. That being said, I'd be leaning towards full on AP with AS bonus when applicable.

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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:31 pm

I already knew all that, I just wanted to see you take a lot of time researching and writing a huge post just for the joy of proving me wrong. I have been mobile for the last few hours and didn't feel like posting all that info from my phone.
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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:34 pm

By the way, I always hot the actives on multiple items, now. I am trained. It is leaving damage on the table to not use the item active abilities.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:46 pm

You were posting incorrect information. So you did NOT know all of that. But now you do, so I expect you to do better with her now. No more excuses.

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Postby GORDON » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:48 pm

I also knew you would contradict my last statement. And I know you will contradict this one. Except now you may not since I predicted it.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:16 pm

Crystal Scepter is A LOT of fun. Turns the E into a massive, AOE slowdown. Every enemy nearby is slow and taking damage.
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