Kayle - The Wing-Ed Bitch

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Post by GORDON »

Starting my hardcore training of a couple new champions. Started with Kayle.

She is melee, but her E makes her ranged for 10 seconds, and her basic attacks do 33% splash damage + some AP modified damage. It refreshes every 15 seconds or so, and has low mana cost, so this is why she gives me a hard time up top with her ranged bullshit. I can do that, too.

The most interesting thing about her, in my opinion.... her Q is a hurt/slowdown, with an AP modifier.... but the modifier is a 1:1 with her AP score. If I build full AP, that becomes a 750ish point Q that refreshes every 4 seconds.

Thing with Kayle is, I am not sure she should build straight AP. I mentioned the E that makes her ranged w/splash damage... well, more attack speed means a shitload more splash damage. She clears minion waves faster than Singed when she is built. Recommended items are the things that give attack speed/damage + AP. I like those items so far and am training myself to remember to hit the active abilities for multiple items. Whenever I forget to use an active I hold a lighter under my forearm for 10 seconds.

Which brings me to.... remember last night when I asked who can clear minions as fast as Singed, up top? This is the one.

Weird thing: in one practice fight, I hit my Invulnerable on myself just before Garen dropped his ULT sword on me. My Invulnerable kicked in, and was in cooldown... and the sword still killed me. Don't know what's up with that.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Watch the recording and see if his sword hit at 2.1 seconds after you cast your 2 second invul. Or if maybe he cast it first, but your animation kicked in before his did. Thus giving the illusion of you being invul, but his ult had already been fired. Or something. Would be worth investigating if there is a way to kill someone even with her invul on.
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Post by Stranger »

I like the idea of you playing Kayle. She would be a good top lane alternate for you. I'm not sure what items are recommended for her, but Nashor's Tooth should be a staple for Kayle. It gives you 50% attack speed, 65 AP, good mana regen, and 20% cooldown reduction. All things that work well on her.

By the way im back from my vacation now and am itching to play some League, not sure if i will be on tonight though because i wanna watch the Michigan game tonight and im sure that Leisher and Cake prolly feel the same way. But who knows, maybe i'll be on.
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Post by GORDON »

I think they said they wanted to take Sundays and Mondays off to pamper their vaginas or something, but I forget. They have like 3 different vagina days every week.
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Post by GORDON »

When I build Kayle according to recommended items, it still leaves me the 6th item free... I spent an entire custom game just swapping out that 6th item to see which one I liked best. I attack Baron solo, over and over... to see which item had me living the longest. I tried Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, and that lifesteal axe. I wanted to try a Deathcap, but then the AI won the game.

I didn't see any appreciable different between those items in slot 6. Still need to try the massive AP boost with the deathcap.
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Post by Leisher »

I don't care about watching the game, but I'll have it on as I play tonight. (The perks of having a TV next to your gaming/work area.)

However, I'd bet Cake will be out. Perhaps he'll pop on today to let us know...or Gordo can text him and ask.

I attack Baron solo, over and over... to see which item had me living the longest.


Survivability isn't the only trait of a good build, especially with Kayle's ult.

I remember a game about a year and a half ago where a Kayle absolutely destroyed us. I believe she was all AP and CDR. She got fed early and due to her E she was wrecking us. If you focused on simply making your E do tons of damage, you could literally walk our whole team down middle, and what could anyone do to stop us? We push into one turret, our damage dealers attack it, while you use your aoe to keep folks off of us, Cake uses Ohmwrecker to turn the turret off, we kill it, pull back to reset, repeat.

Here's a decent Kayle guide.
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Post by GORDON »

The devastating-Kayle game I remember was a TT, and we kept targeting their ADC, and Kayle kept Invulnerabling him,, and we kept getting chewed up over and over.

That is what I am looking forward to doing. Whipping a 3-second Invul on Teemo right as the fight starts. If Teemo has the Woogies for when the 3 seconds is up and the enemy tries to retarget him, it further adds to the enemy team confusion and aggravation.
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Post by Leisher »

I don't remember the TT one, just the SR one.

The toughest part for you with Kayle will be keeping track of who needs that ult, and when.

It'll be hard to not use it on yourself if split pushing and you get caught, or not using it on a fleeing ally who is fucked either way, or hitting the correct ally with it in a fight.

Has anyone looked into the auto targeting for LoL? Not the cheats, but if there's any in game. I keep hearing about them, but never a "how to". This may sound dumb, but I wonder if you can click on champion portraits to apply a spell?
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Post by GORDON »

"Smart Clicking" or something like that.

1-button skill shots that fly immediately to wherever the mouse cursor is.

And I believe there is a way to assign buffs and shit to a specific character.

This is what peeps are probably doing when the game starts.... assigning their buttons to whatever characters hey are supporting.

I dunno. But there are lots of key binding options we aren't using.
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Post by Stranger »

are you talking about smart casting? its like what Gordo said, you just press the button once and wherever your cursor is it will cast your spell, without bringing up the grapic that it usually does and then you dont have to right click to cast your spell.. i assumed all of us have been using that for a long time now. i know i switched over to smart casting at least a year or so ago.

As far as setting up a button assignment for a certain spell to go on a certain champ... i dunno about that. im pretty sure that isn't something you can set up. You might be able to click on the champ photos like Leisher had mentioned but i would see that as harder to do. I don't have any problems putting shields and buffs on any of you guys, its just like targeting an enemy but its your teammate. i don't see why it would be so difficult to do. point and click.. done.
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Post by GORDON »

So, gimme feedback on my Kayle, if you have enough info to form an opinion.

Game 1: I went with my typical top-strategy. Offensive runes and masteries, aggressive out of the gate. Darius (or whoever the hell that was) tore me the fuck up with no trouble. I couldn't even dent him. I would poke and do a few points of damage, and he would lifesteal the damage back in 2 hits while he was bending me over to assrape me. I never recovred in that game.

Game 2: I altered my strategy to something I read on one of the Kayle strategy guides from earlier in the day: I build Warmog's, first thing. Also went defensive masteries and made a crazy rune set with armor, resist, magic pen, and AP. Who was I laning against.... I forget. But they weren't able to beat the shit out of me as well as the person in game 1 did and I stayed alive long enough in the fights to get 14 assists.. I ended the game 4/3/14. Oh, this was the game we didn't have a jungler because oops.

Game 3: Started with frozen mallet instead of Warmog's, just to see how I felt about that. Obvious feelings... I enjoyed the extra damage, but I missed the extra healing. All in all, not a bad game. They were focusing me more than in game 2, so I was always ready to pop the invuln on myself just to keep them tied up another 3 seconds while you guys hit them. I saw it work well twice. Ended 4/4/10. Not horrible.

So yeah, I still need to hone my instincts to know when to Unvuln, and probably more importantly, we need to get the team instincts so you guys know automatically when you can make a crazy dash and expect my Invuln. Working that little maneuver out will make us win a lot more games. It is the well-coordinated enemy attacks that kicks our asses. We need to get to the point where if I say, "My ult is ready," then we will automatically do whatever crazy thing we figure out with it.

Other thoughts?
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Post by Leisher »

are you talking about smart casting? its like what Gordo said, you just press the button once and wherever your cursor is it will cast your spell, without bringing up the grapic that it usually does and then you dont have to right click to cast your spell.. i assumed all of us have been using that for a long time now. i know i switched over to smart casting at least a year or so ago.


I have never used this to my knowledge, nor do I know where to set it up, nor do I think I'd want to...

I think it'd screw up my skill shots.

So, gimme feedback on my Kayle, if you have enough info to form an opinion.


I thought you played decent enough to not drag us down, which is a great first impression.

However, I would really research your rune/mastery setups, and your builds. You were not doing the damage that we've seen out of Kayle in other games.

Really examine the builds you're finding online. Check for their rating, their date (most are out of date), what season they're for, etc.

For example: Why were you building a frozen mallet at all? Did you look at the Kayle guide I linked? Here it is again.

They actually list out the most commonly used items, runes, masteries, etc. on Kayle (they have a page for every champ), and frozen mallet is nowhere in sight.

Frozen mallet is more for carries who don't want someone to escape their attack. Your whole emphasis should be on your Q and E. What items will get you the most out of those two spells?
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Post by Stranger »

Leisher wrote:I have never used this to my knowledge, nor do I know where to set it up, nor do I think I'd want to...

I think it'd screw up my skill shots.

you have to be in game to set it up. you go to the settings and change the key bindings so that q,w,e and r are all set to smartcast. I suggest you try a custom game to try and set them up and give it a shot. it takes a little getting used to but i couldn't imagine going back once i got used to it. i think it helps with skill shots because there is no delay when you do them, it fires the instant you press the button, i think it makes a big difference.

i have found that different champ's abilities work better the old fashion way, cause sometimes its nice to see exactly where your shot is going to land, or see where its max range is at. but if you only wanted to smartcast your Q for a certain champ you can set it up so that only that button will be set that way. But it will be that way the next game if you don't change it and it will screw you up if you're not expecting it and using a different champ. So you can't set it up for each individual champ.

am i the only one that uses this, or even has known about it?




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Post by GORDON »

Stranger wrote:am i the only one that uses this, or even has known about it?
I was telling them last week to get into a custom game, and screw with their settings, but they dont listen to me. I have set up some secondary hotkeys already... for example, the T key fires off the item in slot 2. Just easier for my fingers to hit.
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Post by Stranger »

i've hotkeyed my items to be the different buttons on my mouse so that i can use all my items with ease and not lose my fingers on the keyboard. I even made one of the buttons on my mouse to be the Shift key so that i can level up my ability without pressing the little plus sign on the screen. I hated going up a level in the middle of a teamfight and trying to click on that little plus sign cause i have scaled down my HUD display so it doesn't take up as much screen space.
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Post by GORDON »

Leisher wrote:Frozen mallet is more for carries who don't want someone to escape their attack. Your whole emphasis should be on your Q and E. What items will get you the most out of those two spells?
Frozen mallet was an experiment, I wanted to see if it would slow EVERYTHING in range when I hit my ranged/AOE. It doesn't, so I didn't like it. Now, the crystal scepter... I think that would work, because the AOE is magic damage.

My Q is modified by 1:1 AP and 1:1 attack damage. Strange combination, but if I build correctly by end game I am hitting 700+ points with it every 5 seconds or so. It is also a minor slowdown, so when you see the red fireball hit someone, they are slow.

W is just a minor heal and speed buff for whomever I use it on. Not a huge deal, but does make you slightly faster when you are trying to get away from a gank.

E is where the funny is. Makes Kayle ranged, but not super ranged. Like Ash's basic attack range. But only lasts 10 seconds with a 16 second cooldown. Has AOE modified by AP, which is how she clears minions with it so fast.

So, both AD and AP help Kayle. Her recommended items include life steal and spell vamp, so all of a sudden attack speed also helps. But she is traditionally a support character, so she can be built tanky and be useful.

It's really all over the place with what can be done with the champion.
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Post by GORDON »

As for the build guides you linked, YES, i looked at them. And they are useful in giving me an idea what the character can do. And I looked at peeps' recommended builds. And here is the funny thing: one of them that was rated 100%... when you get into it, at the bottom it says, "Update: Build does not work, I had the wrong numbers with the item abilities."

So I take that as a guide, not as a rule. I tried frozen mallet because i wanted to try frozen mallet. It will take some tweaking before I get this shit down.
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Post by Stranger »

And as far as Kayle, i really thought you did a good job with her. You did some good ults that i saw and were able to get in there and mix it up pretty well.

i would say that frozen mallet isn't the best choice for her though. i think you should try Nashor's Tooth on her though, i noticed you didn't get in any games lastnight. basically any item that give you AS/AP is the way to go i think. Then either Berzerker Grieves for more AS or Sorc shoes for more Spell pen. and prolly at least one tanky item like a Warmogs cause you gotta get in there and battle it out.

But try Nashor's tooth once for your first item and tell me what you think, everything i read about her says that its the way to go.
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Post by GORDON »

Nashor's tooth doesn't do as well for me as something like the Hextech Gunblade, which gives me AP+AD (AD buffs my Q), and a little life steal, and some cooldown reduction, and an active that does another couple hundred in damage.

I like that Nashor's is cheaper and quicker, and has some attack speed, but so far it seems better to invest in the Gunblade first.
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Post by Leisher »

Fine you nagging women, I'll dig into key bindings, and I'll check out smartcast.

Still not sure smartcast will be for me though. I like seeing my ranges so I know how far I can stay back or if it's worth using a flash, etc.

Back to Kayle...

Don't experiment too much. Better players than us have already broken down what you should be using. Don't be Scooty. If you look at that guide (and yes, that's what it's called...), they list out the items not for one build, but the most common items people use in their Kayle builds. You're not just looking at one build, you're looking at them ALL.

It seems like even that site is a bit dated because Madred's is still listed (I assume it pulls from online builds, so if old ones are up, it's still pulling old items.).

Since I have asked you to focus on your Q and E, I'd build AP and CDR.

I'd build the top 5 items on that "Most Used Items" list, and then experiment with the 6th item. I'd probably lean Deathcap, Black Cleaver, Void Staff, or something defensive.

It'll all depend on what role you find Kayle taking you. Are you primarily mowing people down? Are they buying resist to counter? Are you instigating fights with your Q and E?
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