TheCatt wrote: Al Franked pretended to grab someone's boobs. Are you really calling that sexual harassment and rape?
As Gordon points out, it isn't about what WE see as sexual harassment and rape. It's what women see. That's my point. Go back through the allegations of all these people and some, Weinstein, are far worse than others, Franken. However, they're ALL being painted with the same brush and the same paint.
If we're going to excuse Franken's behavior, which neither woman wants to, why aren't we excusing other behavior? Where does the line stand? Who gets to decide where that line is and what actions cross it?
It cannot be a fluid, moving line.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Leisher wrote: If we're going to excuse Franken's behavior, which neither woman wants to, why aren't we excusing other behavior? Where does the line stand? Who gets to decide where that line is and what actions cross it?
Me? It's shades of grey. Al made a tasteless joke that violated someone's space/body.
They are not all being painted with the same brush, by most people, I assume. I haven't heard massive calls for Franken's resignation. Whereas Weinstein's career is certainly dead, and he may even get prosecuted.
On the other hand, I'm glad I'm a) not famous and b) married. I cannot imagine trying to pursue someone right now in that situation.
"What self-respecting woman would admit that no man had ever made an unwanted sexual advance toward her? She’d be admitting either that no man’s ever made her a sexual advance or that she’s never met a sexual advance she didn’t like."
TheCatt wrote: Al made a tasteless joke that violated someone's space/body.
That's what we saw in the picture. What was done in the time before and after the picture? She also alleges he forcibly kissed her, and a second woman says he groped her.
TheCatt wrote: They are not all being painted with the same brush, by most people, I assume. I haven't heard massive calls for Franken's resignation. Whereas Weinstein's career is certainly dead, and he may even get prosecuted.
As above, perhaps not all the facts are being taken into account, perhaps some people are being defended (whether it's for political means or personal), and/or perhaps some allegations ring untrue (Tambor). I mean, two Dem lawmakers have been accused, one settled out of court, neither has been asked to resign. Meanwhile, Charlie Rose has been fired.
There's definitely some selective enforcement going on.
That being said, I agree that there are shades of grey. However, it is the same brush. If your name is being brought up right now your career is over. This will always haunt you. Unless you're Charlie Sheen... (Seriously, he was accused of molesting an underage Corey Haim. Why is he not getting the Spacey treatment?)
My favorite headline of the day yesterday:
CBS’s Norah O’Donnell on Charlie Rose: ‘There is no excuse for this alleged behavior’
I find that statement to be accurate, yet wildly inaccurate. It also highlights how even alleged behavior is getting people shit canned and ruining their reputation. You ever going to watch a Kevin Spacey film the same way?
As for the inaccurate part, this will not be popular, but... This behavior was accepted previously. I'm not sure how "correct" it is to condemn people for actions that were socially acceptable in their past. It's like how Patriots fans try to claim their "Spygate" titles are as legit as the Steelers' from the 70s because the Steelers were using 'roids. The part they leave out is that steroids weren't illegal back then, and the majority of the league was using them.
When Charlie Rose was a young man, some of his behavior was very likely more socially accepted. I still stand by my claim that some of Weinstein's victims were probably fine with trading sexual favors for fame and fortune. You're telling me NO woman would give a guy head to become rich and famous? Would you like to buy a bridge?
And NONE of this excuses Sheen, Spacey, and their ilk.
Yes, we are civilized and nobody should be grabbing anyone without permission or asking them to do things for job security and all that. However, that bar has been moving. It also doesn't help that the bar is different for every woman. If you don't know a woman who fantasizes about a man just taking her, then you've never talked to a woman. The key is WHICH man. Tom Cruise could walk into a room full of women, grab each woman's ass, and their reactions would all be different. Some would be offended and consider it assault. Some wouldn't give a fuck, but would press the issue anyway for the notoriety or a cash grab. Some would pursue him sexually. Some would pursue a relationship for the fame and easy life. Some would wonder if they appear manly... hehe
Anyway, I'm ranting. My point is there is CLEARLY a place we can draw a line on a man or woman's (they are not innocent of this) behavior, and I think we should as a society. I think two we can agree on are:
1. Permission is required.
2. Kids are off limits. (The arbitrary age limits that vary state by state are a different discussion. Also, no 19 year old should face jail time for having sex with their 17 year old boyfriend/girlfriend. We've got some work to do there.)
After that?
thibodeaux wrote: "What self-respecting woman would admit that no man had ever made an unwanted sexual advance toward her? She’d be admitting either that no man’s ever made her a sexual advance or that she’s never met a sexual advance she didn’t like."
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TheCatt wrote: OMG, You're Donald Trump. Has anyone mentioned other incriminating pictures? I've only heard Donald allude to pictures 2,3,4,5, 6. Planting a seed.
I have no idea what you're on about Malcolm.
TheCatt wrote: Al Franken's accuser wrrapping a leg around Robin Williams and slapping his ass
LeeAnn forcing herself on men
Are you victim shaming? Are you suggesting that she deserved the treatment he gave her? Where are the pictures of the second woman doing this stuff?
GORDON wrote: Still harassment, under the new definition
Exactly.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Leisher wrote: What was done in the time before and after the picture?
Hilarious. (That's not sarcastic.)
However, explain to the chick and the second chick why Trump is wrong.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Someone should explain to them that he's allowed to sexually harass women because he's good enough, he's smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like him.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
I believe that as a country, we could save everyone a lot of time and trouble if we just blanket accuse ALL men right now. Let's just assume every man is guilty, you know, like we currently are doing, and come up with some punishment. That way we can stop the witch hunt.
BTW, the Lauer thing I'm guessing was a long term affair. Seems like they made the move pretty confident that it had been going on for a while. Had it been multiple women, you have to assume more would come forward.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
