Team Fortress 2

Mostly PC, but console and mobile too
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

BTW, I read somewhere that multi Halo 2 on XBox Live won't be playable against peeps on a PC. We discussed this before.

Massive, disappointing fumble on the part of Microsoft and the game devs, if true.

Speaking of console validation.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

First impressions are hard to get over. . .

My first impressions of Steam:

1. Had to load it to play CS.
2. It forced me up upgrade to the latest version of CS.
3. It launched every time I started my PC.
4. It was very 'in my face' about stuff.

It killed CS for me because at that time, there was no anti cheat apps for CS. So, CS went from a virtually cheat free environment, to one that was infested with cheaters. Also, the latest version of CS at the time added a bunch of dumb content. The weapons were screwed up, and other stuff. It killed all the CS mods that were out there. So, all the stuff I liked about CS was gone. Thanks Steam!!

And because half (more or less) of this was Valves fault too (they approved the shutting down of the WON servers, the 'latest version only' rule on Steam, etc), I'm pissed off at them too.

So, they took a game I really, really liked and enjoyed playing, and beat it to a pulp, EA style, in my opinion. So. . . Fuck 'em. :-)

I could be swayed back to the dark side, because. . . they didn't piss in my face and laugh. They just screwed up.

So. . . here's their chance to make it up to me. . . What are the odds of me being able to load my old Half Life game, getting the current CS mod downloaded, and playing the game?




As far as TFC2 goes. . . I was never that jacked about it. :-) I played it cause it was free. But that style of game play was never very much fun for me. Charge in, guns blazing, spamming nades, get shot, hit space bar, repeat. Throw in a rocket jump here and there for good measure. The sniper and the engineer were the only stratigic points to that game. And that wasn't enough to be fun for much longer than 30 minutes per month for me. Granted, things could/should be different in TFC2. One can only hope that the rocket jump will be removed. But, since it was never taken out of the original, I have to wonder. I'm more for realism and strategy. Not, COMPLETE realism, I'm finding. But more than what was in the frag fest that is/was TFC.




Edited By Cakedaddy on 1153431655
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Post by GORDON »

I liked the TFC frag fest. There were so many character types I could change my method of fragging whenever it pleased me to do so.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

You say so many character types, and yet, I found it to be repetative. Ok, I can spam nades as the demo till I get spammed then repeat. Go in ripping with the Heavy guy till I die, hit space, repeat. Go in quick and jumpy as the scout, hit space, repeat. Etc. The sniper, where you had to pick a good spot and see/hit them before they saw/hit you was fun. Setting up the turret and keeping it alive as long as possible was fun. But, that fun was always ended by the suicide nade spammer rocket jumping guy.

Senslessly lobbing ammo at AI monsters seems to be fun (Serious Sam). Senslessly lobbing ammo at PCs is. . . sensless and boringly repeatative.

In closing, you should stop liking TFC.
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Post by WSGrundy »

BTW, I read somewhere that multi Halo 2 on XBox Live won't be playable against peeps on a PC. We discussed this before.

Massive, disappointing fumble on the part of Microsoft and the game devs, if true.

Speaking of console validation.
All future games on 360 and Vista will be though.
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Post by Leisher »

My first impressions of Steam:

1. Had to load it to play CS.
2. It forced me up upgrade to the latest version of CS.
3. It launched every time I started my PC.
4. It was very 'in my face' about stuff.


1. They do use Steam as their multiplayer matching service, so that's understandable.
2. This is one of the criticisms about Steam, but if they are doing the hosting, matchmaking, and trying to block cheaters, then I can forgive them for this. If the game works, people shouldn't be bitching, if they don't like it, they should go design their own game. Valve is more accessible than any other company in allowing access to their code. If the game is broken due to an update, then shame on Valve.
3. This can be turned off like any other process in your startup. I shut mine off after I beat HL2.
4. I have no idea what you mean by that. I can only assume you mean that it popped up and gave you the latest Valve news (if there was any) when you booted your PC (none after that). That's solved by taking Steam out of your startup. Upon launching though, Steam doesn't do shit.

It killed CS for me because at that time, there was no anti cheat apps for CS. So, CS went from a virtually cheat free environment, to one that was infested with cheaters. Also, the latest version of CS at the time added a bunch of dumb content. The weapons were screwed up, and other stuff. It killed all the CS mods that were out there. So, all the stuff I liked about CS was gone. Thanks Steam!!

And because half (more or less) of this was Valves fault too (they approved the shutting down of the WON servers, the 'latest version only' rule on Steam, etc), I'm pissed off at them too.

So, they took a game I really, really liked and enjoyed playing, and beat it to a pulp, EA style, in my opinion. So. . . Fuck 'em. :-)


I remember you complaining about the problems with CS. There is no answer besides "they fucked up." They must have fixed things though as many people still play it.

I could be swayed back to the dark side, because. . . they didn't piss in my face and laugh. They just screwed up.


Exactly, they fucked up, but they weren't trying to fuck you. We've all seen other companies fuck over their consumers and not care. StarForce comes immediately to mind. EA and how they decimated UO (that's only one example for that company). Sony fucking over all their SW:G players by completely reinventing the game under their feet. Etc.

We've seen other developers make mistakes too, look at one of the most revered names in gaming: Blizzard. They had no idea how to control cheaters in Diablo ruining the multiplayer experience for all their customers. They went live with their Battlenet service and it was a huge flop at first due to being overloaded. Then they turned around and did the exact same thing with the WoW launch. Oh, and let's not forget their big "fuck you" to PC gamers when Starcraft got a sequel, but only for consoles.

So. . . here's their chance to make it up to me. . . What are the odds of me being able to load my old Half Life game, getting the current CS mod downloaded, and playing the game?


Actually, you can't put it all on them. You're pretty bitter about CS and you're against Steam for being something you perceive it be rather than what Valve means it to be. I would suggest that for them to get a second chance with you, you really have to want to give them one.

Are you talking about Half-Life, the original? I have no clue. You might be able to find games outside of Steam doing that. Although, if you want to play within Steam, I'd recommend you hit their site and ask. I know CS went retail at some point, but I've also seen it given away in packages. I can't log into my Steam account from here, but if you look at the games list somewhere in this chain, I can tell you that I have a lot more games listed as "in account" that I never paid for because they are just given to me for being a customer and such.

Results may vary.

Oh, and I liked TFC more than CS. Sure it wasn't "realistic" because people could rocket jump, but it didn't try to be. CS was supposed to be realistic, but was as realistic as TFC. Maybe not in gameplay, but overall. I mean, who gets money for kills only to spend it at a store in their heads which makes the weapons magically appear. This is right after they've been resurrected of course :D

And don't judge TF2 before we get details. TFC was a huge hit and I expect we'll see lots of that gameplay, but don't be surprised if they stick in some CS style play. It may still be with those over the top characters, but who cares?
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Post by GORDON »

If the game is broken due to an update, then shame on Valve.
A Valve "update" is actually why I quit playing TFC long before Steam even arrived on the scene.

I was an average player. Sometimes I'd be near the top of the player list, sometimes near the bottom. No biggie.

But then Valve implemented some sort of new networking code that helped dial-up peeps be more competitive against broadband peeps. This made me, on broadband, all of a sudden be rubberbanding every move I made. Made the game unplayable, for me, though I saw lots of praise from the dial-up users. So I pretty much moved on from there.

I heard they pulled that stupid code out later, but for me the damage was done. Once I uninstalled it from my HD, it's a hassle reinstalling it all. Too bad for them, catering to a segment of their users who don't want to pay the shekels for a better service (yeah, or broadband wasn't in their area yet, but that isn't my problem until Valve made it my problem).
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Post by Leisher »

A Valve "update" is actually why I quit playing TFC long before Steam even arrived on the scene.

I was an average player. Sometimes I'd be near the top of the player list, sometimes near the bottom. No biggie.

But then Valve implemented some sort of new networking code that helped dial-up peeps be more competitive against broadband peeps. This made me, on broadband, all of a sudden be rubberbanding every move I made. Made the game unplayable, for me, though I saw lots of praise from the dial-up users. So I pretty much moved on from there.

I heard they pulled that stupid code out later, but for me the damage was done. Once I uninstalled it from my HD, it's a hassle reinstalling it all. Too bad for them, catering to a segment of their users who don't want to pay the shekels for a better service (yeah, or broadband wasn't in their area yet, but that isn't my problem until Valve made it my problem).


So Valve tried to help people, realized it fucked other people, and pulled it? Thus, the real problem is you're too lazy to install a game! :) Well good news, Steam will install a game for you. Just click a button and do something else while the game installs.

Although, I do get what you're saying. I stopped playing CS before Valve got a hold of it and before that Cheatbuster thing was out because the cheating was on every server.

I think sometimes if you get burnt out on a game, you will turn your back if you feel things have changed for the worse without giving them a chance to fix it. UO was cheater's heaven and we stuck around there for a long while. Later, when the developers started sleeping with the RPers, everyone left. We got fed up.
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Post by WSGrundy »

Here is a new video.

I really like the look but I don't know if I like FPS games enough to buy half life and then buy team fortress but it looks fun.
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Post by Leisher »

It looks very good.

I almost didn't recognize the level.




Edited By Leisher on 1157115210
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Post by GORDON »

It looks exactly like a Team Fortress update without trying to reinvent the game.

Which is good.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.
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Post by GORDON »

Oh yeah, I groaned at that part.
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Post by Leisher »

Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.


Well, in their defense, it was a huge part of the first game. I'd say it started the big trend of rocket jumping. Plus, the spy can become perfectly invisible apparently which doesn't bother you?

Also, everyone else is already doing straight military stuff. Why would they want to as well? Being campy sets it apart from the rest of the crowd.

But hey, they can't all be as realistic as Duke Nukem, Red Alert 2, Total Annihilation, Ultima Online, SW:G, EVE, etc. (For those who don't get that, it's the majority of games we've multied.).

EVERY game is going to be unrealistic in some way and you've got to admit that they aren't playing this up as a BF 1942 killer.
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Post by WSGrundy »

Fucking rocket jump. What the fuck. They couldn't think of something better to give the soldier? I hate the game already.
Yeah that was totally lame. The other thing was how fast the scout(or whatever he was) moved.
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Post by WSGrundy »

EVERY game is going to be unrealistic in some way and you've got to admit that they aren't playing this up as a BF 1942 killer.

The unrealistic doesn't bother me at all, it just if something looks stupid or not. That is the difference between the invisible spy and the rocket jump.

As long the spy has some major weaknesses I think the invisible thing is cool but the rocket jump just looks gay. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but I would rather the soldier have a jet pack or something then using the rocket to jump.




Edited By WSGrundy on 1157134492
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Post by Leisher »

The unrealistic doesn't bother me at all, it just if something looks stupid or not. That is the difference between the invisible spy and the rocket jump.

As long the spy has some major weaknesses I think the invisible thing is cool but the rocket jump just looks gay. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but I would rather the soldier have a jet pack or something then using the rocket to jump.


Actually, I thought the scout was the worst thing in the video. He appeared to be too fast. the only guy that could stop him was the demoman and that's because he had set a trap.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I know realism use to be a beef I had with FPSs. But that's been solved for the most part by the huge number of games out there now. CoD2 covers that well enough. Some of the mods that are out there take it even further than standard CoD2 does. So, that's not an issue anymore.

Rocket jump is just lame. It was a bug in the first one they decided not to fix and then impliment in the second? What ever. . . I agree with WS. Had they given him a jet pack, then it wouldn't bother me. I realize they both accomplish the same thing. It's just the principle of the thing. It was discovered in TFC, exploited by many, and then adopted as 'we meant to do that'. Blah. They just catered to all the lame players that find bugs and use them to their advantage. Other than seeing the spy go invis and stuff, don't know much about it. So, not going to rush to judgement. It looks like he has to uncloak to kill, so, maybe they can only cloak if they aren't moving. So, they have to get to a spot, stop, cloak, etc. Maybe. Don't know. I remember them being able to take the shape/color of enemy units too.

Over all, it's not the realism of TFC that I have issues with. As stated above, it's the boring repeatativeness of spam/res/spam/res/spam/res crap I have issues with. Could easily be solved by having a res delay of some kind. CoD2 HQ maps and CS as a whole punishes you by not letting you res till the next round. CoD2 CTF makes you wait up to 10 seconds to spawn. Death matches are just spam and res fests. Blah. . . gets boring too quickly.
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Post by GORDON »

Eh, scout speed looked perfectly in line with Team Fortress 1. Keep in mind they have zero armor. Scouts are still pretty easily killed despite the speed.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Kind of what I was thinking. Low damage, low armor, they have speed.
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