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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:04 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post
Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post I don't know ANYone that's smoked weed and hasn't experimented with other drugs.


Hi.


I could have sworn you told me you've never tried weed.

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Postby Leisher » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post
Leisher wrote:Source of the post
Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post I don't know ANYone that's smoked weed and hasn't experimented with other drugs.


Hi.


I could have sworn you told me you've never tried weed.


That was probably true at that time. We've known each other a long time.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:37 pm

If it goes full legal, I'll probably try it while the kid is out of town, and see what it does with the creative process. I've heard some vague rumors that it had an effect.
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Postby Leisher » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:46 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post If it goes full legal, I'll probably try it while the kid is out of town, and see what it does with the creative process. I've heard some vague rumors that it had an effect.


I think that is VASTLY overrated. Yeah, one can grab an idea here or there if it fits their work (Stephen King), but it can also seriously damage the creative process (Most SNL skits, Sausage Party, etc.).

Also, let me go back to pot being a gateway drug...it isn't. That's total bullshit for most people. Sure, there are folks who are searching for an escape because they have bigger issues, but they're not moving to bigger drugs because of weed. What really happens is you're high and someone gets you to try something else while you're high. There's the gateway. Typically it's evil fucks with their own agendas, like drug dealers, or moron friends who don't realize the damage they're doing. The EXACT SAME EFFECT being too drunk has on people, yet it's not called a "gateway drug".
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:05 pm

Sure, all of what you typed happens. But there are plenty of people that try it and want to experiment with other highs because it felt good.

Is it ALWAYS a gateway? No.
Is it NEVER a gateway? No.

And if it's legal, why not do it in front of the kids? Do you not drink beer in front of the kids? This is partially devil's advocate, and partially genuinely curious.

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Postby TheCatt » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:09 pm

I read it. I don't want prohibition. I was just responding line by line.
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Postby TheCatt » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:10 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post If it goes full legal, I'll probably try it while the kid is out of town, and see what it does with the creative process. I've heard some vague rumors that it had an effect.

Honestly, it just makes you feel dumb, and makes everything* funnier. Which explains a lot of terrible movies. Like maybe they were high for the entire 2nd Anchorman movie.

At this point, I like it like I like ~2 beers. Just enough to chill and feel a little floaty.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:15 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post
GORDON wrote:Source of the post If it goes full legal, I'll probably try it while the kid is out of town, and see what it does with the creative process. I've heard some vague rumors that it had an effect.


I think that is VASTLY overrated. Yeah, one can grab an idea here or there if it fits their work (Stephen King), but it can also seriously damage the creative process (Most SNL skits, Sausage Party, etc.).


Yeah, to be honest, my creative process seems to be just fine. I just clear my head, and let the voices talk to me.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:And if it's legal, why not do it in front of the kids? Do you not drink beer in front of the kids? This is partially devil's advocate, and partially genuinely curious.


This is a good question. I already told me kid that IMO, weed is no more dangerous than nicotine of alcohol, just be responsible with it... and NEVER do it if getting caught gets him fired or kicked out of college. But I don't know... I think that for all my life it's been illegal and fringe, and I would still feel a little baked-in shame if I did it. I wouldn't want to do it in front of my kid.

On the other hand, setting an example on how to recreate (as in recreational) responsibly would be good, too. We had an "alcohol" talk the other day... I buy a huge bottle of rum twice a year. He saw it sitting on the counter, "Do you drink all that?" "Yeah, but it takes me 6 months." Same with beer. He sees that I only drink about 2 bottles a week. It's something that can be done responsibly and maturely. Parenting.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Then why did you include beer and cigs as a counter to weed being dispensed as medicine?

Or compare making medicine in your basement to making beer?

And I don't want prohibition. I'm saying I would accept it to end all of the comparisons of weed to alcohol. "You drink alcohol! Alcohol is worse than weed!" I personally think that is deflection. Alcohol is not on trial here. And then it went to sugar, because that's also bad for us. Like I said, I went kind of off the rails there because that's normally how discussions about the legalization of weed goes. "Weed's ok cause there's other bad stuff out there." "Fine. Take those away too."

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Postby GORDON » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Unlike the "bad cops/bad military" discussion, I think weed/beer is a valid comparison. Cops and military are very different, but weed and beer are both mildly (when used in moderation) mood altering... except too much weed makes you want to sit on the couch giggling too much and eating an entire bag of doritos, whereas too much beer either has you puking, fighting in the bar, or driving the wrong way on the interstate, killing a family of 6.

I also disagree with the gateway drug thing. I think some peeps have that addiction gene... and the only reason weed is a gateway drug is because it was in the doorway when the person was already going into the crack house. Metaphor... but you know what I mean. I've never sought oblivion. When I have had opioid painkillers, I could see the appeal, but had no problem stopping when the pain was managed. There are probably more alcoholics then drug addicts. Both kill you. I don't see a lot of difference, just a different choice of poison.

But I could be wrong. I have no problem with your perspective being different. You could be 100% right.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:36 am

His comparison was beer/weed as medicine. He was comparing his right to make beer (which is not medicine) in his basement to growing weed (which is supposed to be medicine) in his basement. What other prescription drug is made in people's basements?

If you are talking alcohol vs weed comparisons. Then what you said applies.

Two discussions going on.
1. The current state of medicinal weed (which is just a cover for recreational use).
2. Justifying the use of weed by comparing it to alcohol.


1. If it's medicine. Treat it as such and get it out of people's basements. Grow it in a controlled environment where quantities are tracked and accounted for. Get it from a pharmacist. Etc.
2. There are LOTS of bad things out there that we consume. Justifying the use of another because there are others isn't a valid point. Legalize weed on its own merits. Not because there's already bad stuff out there. In moderation, a person could do heroin without hurting anyone. Should we legalize that? I see your deflection and raise you the snowball effect.

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Postby TheCatt » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:33 am

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Then why did you include beer and cigs as a counter to weed being dispensed as medicine?

Or compare making medicine in your basement to making beer?

I don't care about it being a medicine. I want it to be recreational, like cigs + alcohol. If cigs + alcohol aren't regulated like medicines, why would pot be?

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Should we legalize that?

I'd argue the line should be at some degree of physical dependence. Of course, that means cigarettes should be illegal in that logic. Which I'm fine with. There's very little upside with smoking. I'm also ok with limiting forms of consumption. Smoking weed isn't great for your lungs, why not edibles/drinks/etc?
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Postby Leisher » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:46 am

And if it's legal, why not do it in front of the kids? Do you not drink beer in front of the kids? This is partially devil's advocate, and partially genuinely curious.


Great question.

I would never smoke cigarettes, cigars, or a pipe in front of my kids, and I think those that do are assholes. You're making them stink, teaching them a bad habit, and potentially harming their health. Not good.

While I might have a drink in front of my kids, it's never to the point of being drunk or even buzzed. (They might have seen me post-party, wedding, etc. though, so they know what alcohol does.) They also see that I NEVER have a drink when I have to drive. I only drink in controlled situations where I'm not called upon to drive.

So with weed, you'd have to combine the two. You have the smoking aspect, which means second hand effects, plus you can't manage your consumption like with alcohol. One puff and you are "under the influence". So no, I would never do it in front of my kids.

It's something that can be done responsibly and maturely. Parenting.


Exactly. Set the example.

I really think showing your kids how to "party", while sounding crazy irresponsible, might actually be good parenting. Studies need to be done.

You can't be the parent who gets wrecked in front of your kids, but isn't it also irresponsible to be the parent who completely forbids ALL booze, drugs, etc.? (Not counting folks who simply don't do any of that stuff.) We all know what happens when someone you're rebelling against forbids you from something...

What if your parents just always told you to make good choices, and you watched them your whole life refuse to drive if they had a beer or two? Monkey see, monkey do.

Unlike the "bad cops/bad military" discussion, I think weed/beer is a valid comparison. Cops and military are very different, but weed and beer are both mildly (when used in moderation) mood altering...


Alright Malcolm. :D We agree to disagree there because I see them as very similar.

Legalize weed on its own merits. Not because there's already bad stuff out there.


Word.

In moderation, a person could do heroin without hurting anyone. Should we legalize that? I see your deflection and raise you the snowball effect.


I would disagree here. You're right that someone could theoretically exist using heroin in moderation, but they are still crazy dependent and it has very negative effects on the body/mind. What are you addicted to? Let's say chocolate. Ever sucked a stranger's dick to get a Hersey's bar? No? That's because chocolate isn't heroin.

Anything you can try once and die because of that substance, not because of actions you took under the effects of that substance, is where I'd draw a line. Although, I would, potentially, not be against fully legalizing such drugs if the government could set up safe places to do them. (The point would be to prevent you harming others, potentially prevent you harming yourself, and to easily identify those who might become a danger to others because the substance has taken over their life.)

I'd argue the line should be at some degree of physical dependence.


Yep.
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Postby Vince » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:54 am

Leisher wrote:I would disagree here. You're right that someone could theoretically exist using heroin in moderation, but they are still crazy dependent and it has very negative effects on the body/mind. What are you addicted to? Let's say chocolate. Ever sucked a stranger's dick to get a Hersey's bar? No? That's because chocolate isn't heroin.

To be fair, you can easily buy chocolate. When I smoked tobacco, there was probably a time I would have considered it if I was unable to legally get a pack of smokes.

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Postby TheCatt » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:42 am

Leisher wrote:Source of the post I really think showing your kids how to "party", while sounding crazy irresponsible, might actually be good parenting. Studies need to be done.

I kinda agree. Better to find your limits somewhere safe.

Image

Where would alcohol be on that chart?
Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010

- CDC

Where would pot be?
I don't know cuz I cannot find good data. You cannot overdose on it, so it doesn't belong in chart 1. It's more like tobacco/alcohol in deaths, but since it's illegal, the data is all over the place.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post Legalize weed on its own merits

This makes little sense. We've drawn a line on legal/illegal, we should just follow it.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:22 pm

A responsible heroin user wouldn't use to the point of sucking dicks. Nor would a responsible chocolate eater like myself.

We've drawn a line on legal/illegal, we should just follow it. . . .
I would love to see that line. I bet it would resemble a district line where it ducks and weaves to include/exclude substances based on who's currently in charge of drawing the line. There is no clear line of what makes something legal/illegal.

Legalized recreational weed wouldn't be regulated like it was medicine. I'm talking about currently, it's 'medicine'. So it should be regulated, prescribed, and treated like any other drug. The basement pharmacy bullshit is bullshit.

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Postby Leisher » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post A responsible heroin user wouldn't use to the point of sucking dicks.


No such thing. There are people who claim to be that, but take away their heroin and watch what happens.

Take away a smoker's cigarettes and he/she just gets grumpy for a bit. Take away chocolate from someone and they become able to see their penis again or get around the store without a rascal.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post There is no clear line of what makes something legal/illegal.


The line should be: Does it hurt someone else OR make you far more likely to hurt someone else?
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Postby GORDON » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:06 pm

Illegal weed might actually be costing lives, if alcohol drinkers switched over, and it turned out weed killed fewer people than alcohol.

Brought to you by the liquor lobby.
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Postby TheCatt » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Canada legalized today.
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