The College Thread

[TheCatt]

Yeah, he was drafted... if you're good, you're probably going to play.

But on the other hand, I feel like we have a criminal justice system for a reason, and it's not run by universities.

[Leisher]

Harvard tells all groups to be inclusive to all sexes.

Sorority to disband rather than do so.

The dissolution of Harvard’s chapter of Delta Gamma, established in 1994, highlights the ongoing debate — which has roiled the Ivy League campus — over gender discrimination, sexual harassment and freedom of association. In particular, it reveals the difficulty that all-female groups face in responding to penalties designed to stop forms of mostly male predation that have brought schools into conflict with federal law.

Wow. They also follow that statement up with some numbers:

The sanctions followed closely on the heels of a university report on sexual assault prevention that upbraided all-male final clubs — of which there are currently six — for “deeply misogynistic attitudes.” It said that 47 percent of female seniors who attended male final club events or participated in female final clubs themselves reported “experiencing nonconsensual sexual contact since entering college.” According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, Harvard currently faces three open investigations into its compliance with Title IX, the federal prohibition on gender discrimination in schools receiving public funds.

Amazing that a school filled with entitled pricks would be rapey.

I'm just amazed at how it's a-ok to hate and exclude men, but if say, Augusta, closed rather than admit women, they'd be persecuted.

[GORDON]

I refuse to automatically equate every single action that gets labeled as "unwanted sexual contact" as rape.

[TheCatt]

I refuse to automatically equate every single action that gets labeled as "unwanted sexual contact" as rape.

Thus, "rapey" not rape.

[GORDON]

Even so.

[GORDON]

"He hit on me. .I didn't want him to. I feel violated."

Fuck that.

[TheCatt]

"He hit on me. .I didn't want him to. I feel violated."

Fuck that.

It did say contact, which I implied as to mean touching.

[GORDON]

You never hit on a woman, and, say, touched her arm?

WITHOUT PERMISSION???

I was implying that a lot of shit these days gets classified as that, when no rational person would. Are you disagreeing?

[TheCatt]

You never hit on a woman, and, say, touched her arm?

WITHOUT PERMISSION???

Is touching an arm sexual contact?

I was implying that a lot of shit these days gets classified as that, when no rational person would. Are you disagreeing?

I'm saying the truthiness of your statement is unknown. There may be anecdotal evidence to support your claim, but it's just that.

[GORDON]

Whether or not it's sexual contact depends on who you ask.

Anecdotal it may be, but I'm suggesting that not all reports of USC are legit, and all you have to argue with is, "yeah but look how many reports of USC there are."

[TheCatt]

Whether or not it's sexual contact depends on who you ask.

Anecdotal it may be, but I'm suggesting that not all reports of USC are legit, and all you have to argue with is, "yeah but look how many reports of USC there are."

Gotcha, so a few may be 'wrong' by your standards, and therefore it's not a problem. Got it.

[GORDON]

Well, if that's what you think I said , bless your heart.

Given two choices, that colleges are filled to the brim with rapists, or colleges are filled to the brim with children who werent prepared for adult relationships, I know which way I lean.

[Vince]

Yeah, I suspect the 25% of women are raped while in college fake stat kind of colors my opinion as well.

[Vince]

Here's a pretty good article on what's been wrong with these rape culture surveys.

[TheCatt]

Here's a pretty good article on what's been wrong with these rape culture surveys.

Here's a better one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_se ... al_assault

The 0.6% is successful rape per year. Most of the other statistics have been per population ('ever'), and include attempts at rape (5% at Kentucky, which compelled students to respond, and had an 80% response rate, in the past year alone). (Specifically " According to preliminary results, 5% of students reported incidents of completed or attempted vaginal, oral, or anal sex that occurred without their consent in the last year")

Quoting from Vincent's source

A new survey from the Bureau of Justice Statistics debunks the oft-repeated claim that one in five women will be sexually assaulted while in college.

The survey found that between 1995 and 2013, an average of 6.1 for every 1,000 female students were raped or sexually assaulted each year. That's about 0.61 percent annually, or (at most) 2.44 percent over the average four-year period (one in 41). That’s way smaller than 20 percent. That’s also virtually unchanged from 2005, the last time BJS put out this report, where the rate of rape among college women was 6 per 1,000.

Two things to unpack in the first sentence.

1 - sexually assaulted. Not the same thing as rape.

2 - While in college. Not per annum. The article emphasizes the 0.61%, but does report that the 4yr stat gets to 2.5%. But, this is also completed rape, not attempted. Also excludes sexual assault (grabbing body parts, etc).

Apples and Oranges.

But, Vincent, even at 2.5% of students (of which there are nearly 12 Million under age 25 at the moment), are those 300,000 (75k/year) rapes a problem? Or is that OK?

Oddly, the NCVS studies are even lower the 0.6%. 0.4% for college aged women, but says that college-enrolled women are less likely to be raped than non-enrolled women.

[Leisher]

Apples and Oranges.

I agree with Dave Burd on this topic. This is a stupid saying. You can absolutely compare fruit.

[TheCatt]

Apples and Oranges.

I agree with Dave Burd on this topic. This is a stupid saying. You can absolutely compare fruit.

Yes, you can compare them, but they are not the same thing, which is the point.

[Leisher]

Apples and Oranges.

I agree with Dave Burd on this topic. This is a stupid saying. You can absolutely compare fruit.

Yes, you can compare them, but they are not the same thing, which is the point.

I know what the point is, but why not compare things that have more differences than two fruits?

And I'm totally derailing your rape thread to talk about fruit.

[Leisher]

Here's a better one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_se ... al_assault

By the way, this statement is inaccurate according to colleges. Wiki is not an accepted source for any projects or papers.

Back to rape, and just my two cents:
25% for just rape is WAY too high to believe. However, I get it if you're including sexual assault. The problem with that is what constitutes sexual assault is so broad that putting it into the same category as rape is misleading and a terrible insult to rape victims.

Nobody should ever be raped. End of story. Rapists are scum. They're thieves stealing actual emotions from their victims. Equally as bad are their enablers or those "men" (and women) who allow it to take place without intervening.

I do wish these studies would also report the number of men who are raped and sexually assaulted. The rape number won't be high, but I'll bet you the sexual assault number is even higher than whatever they come up with. (Most guys are never going to report a sexual assault.)

[Vince]

But, Vincent, even at 2.5% of students (of which there are nearly 12 Million under age 25 at the moment), are those 300,000 (75k/year) rapes a problem? Or is that OK?

Oddly, the NCVS studies are even lower the 0.6%. 0.4% for college aged women, but says that college-enrolled women are less likely to be raped than non-enrolled women.

The rapes are not okay. My problem isn't in stating that men rape women. My problem is in less than honest reporting that would imply that men are so rapey that 25% of them get raped going to college and all men are pretty much rapists.

My observations are that when someone is blowing numbers this far out of proportion, then their goal usually isn't to address the problem they're saying they're trying to address.