Climate Change (fka man-made global warming)

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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Well, again, even in the ozone link, roughly half the activity was caused by man. Therefore, man is impacting the environment.

Republican policies favor carbon dioxide, mercury, SOx and NOx emissions. As such, they impact the environment. Do we know definitively the extent to which human activities and these emissions impact the environment? No. Never said that. Does most evidence indicate that they do/can impact the environment? Yes. Hell, even regulated utilities are saying that.

Those on the "nothing humans do, or can do will impact the environment" have already drunk the koolaid.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

I wish that just once Al Gore would admit that the environment has been changing since before the Earth cooled, has always been changing, and will always be changing.

The earth absolutely positively will enter a new ice age. Ice ages are cyclical. We're overdue for an ice age. But for some reason republicans are going to be the cause of it. I want him to say it. In a movie.

Why anyone listens to Gore and the rest of these assholes is beyond me.
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DoctorChaos
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Post by DoctorChaos »

Oh this is bullshit! Republicans, Democrats it's out of our hands now that other nations are becoming industrialized. The gas and oil prices shot up in part to what is going on in the Middle East. China has become a HUGE consumer of oil. They are also now acknowloging that the uncapped industrialization is causing massive pollution.

Yes, man does impact the environment. There was an article (transcriped somewhere on this site) that provided strong evidence (notice I didn't say proof) that farming caused a green house effect that staved off an ice age.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Catt, how do you account for the history of the ozone layer from before mankind was around? UV levels have risen and dropped down there since the dawn of time according to ice core samples they've studied, and the speed and degree of change seen in the recent interval is nothing unusual. How do you account for that, since thre was no industry around to effect it?
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Catt, how do you account for the history of the ozone layer from before mankind was around? UV levels have risen and dropped down there since the dawn of time according to ice core samples they've studied, and the speed and degree of change seen in the recent interval is nothing unusual. How do you account for that, since thre was no industry around to effect it?
Did you read the article?
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Yes, and I'm trying to figure out why they are ignoring the historical evidence that the ozone layer goes through big cycles even well before industrialization. Since you were ignoring the same evidence, I was hoping you could explain why.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Yes, and I'm trying to figure out why they are ignoring the historical evidence that the ozone layer goes through big cycles even well before industrialization. Since you were ignoring the same evidence, I was hoping you could explain why.
Re-read the article.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

I did. Maybe you could quote for me what it is you've got in mind?

I see that it is about how scientists are surprised that something other than man's meddling seems to be responsible for impacts on the environment. I don't see where they address the facts of the historical record, though. To me the article reads as if the recent lowpoint in ozone levels is some sort of unusual occurance, rather than an established natural phenomenon.
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Post by GORDON »

And these aint even Americans saying this:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

...
Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."


But wait, i thought Gore said ALL scientists agree?

The entire article is basically calling Al Gore a big fat stinking liar.

Which al gore himself has admitted to being.

Trust me... if any actual evidence existed, he wouldn't have to make shit up.




Edited By GORDON on 1150339173
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

I loved that article. Made me tingley in my pants.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Al Gore is still lying, or something. Nah, probably just crazy.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/20/134405.shtml?s=ic

Gore went further. Asked by Rose "Do you know any credible scientist who says ‘wait a minute – this hasn’t been proven,’ is there still a debate?” Gore replied, "The debate’s over. The people who dispute the international consensus on global warming are in the same category now with the people who think the moon landing was staged on a movie lot in Arizona.”


Ok, Al. Just put the gun down... you're in a safe place....

Scary to think this guy was almost president.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Well, that's just retarded, Al.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

It's not me, it's someone else.
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Post by GORDON »

A panel of top climate scientists told lawmakers that the Earth is running a fever and that "human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming." Their 155-page report said average global surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere rose about 1 degree during the 20th century.


A panel?

Of TOP scientists?

TOP???

Holy shit, maybe this is for real.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

And on a related note...

The USA gets a lot of flack from the EU for not signing Kyoto.

The EU signed, and isn't even close to honoring it.

How bout that.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Best acronym ever
Friends of the Earth Europe reacted bitterly.

FEE
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

I liked what Lileks had to say about this stuff:
I am not susceptible to disaster scenarios. I do not believe we have ten years to prevent the inevitable collapse of civilization. As long as I can remember I have been fed end-times scenarios – death by ice, death by fire, death by famine, death by smothering from heaps of clambering humans scrabbling for purchase on an overpopulated world, death by full-scale nuclear exchange, death by unstoppable global AIDS, death by a two-degree rise in temperatures, death by radon, death by alar, death by inadvertent Audi acceleration, death by juju. Doesn’t mean we won’t die of juju. But somehow we survive. The only thing I take away is a vague wistful wonder what it would be like to live in an era when things were generally so bad that the futurists spent their time assuring us it would be better. Say what you will about the past, but at least they had a future. All I’ve ever had, according to the experts, is a grim narrow window of heedless ignorance bliss followed by a dystopian irradiated world characterized by scarcity, mutation, and quite possibly intelligent chimps. You have no future. Oh, and don’t smoke!
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Say what you will about the past, but at least they had a future.


Nah, not really. Humanity has always been less than ten years from oblivion. We've just replaced signs and portents proclaiming the end of the world with pseudoscience proclaiming the end of the world.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Which pretty much equates to signs and portents, anyway.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

The following paragraph in this stupid fuck article made me weep for modern science.
The scientists said they had less confidence in the evidence of temperatures before 1600. But they considered it reliable enough to conclude there were sharp spikes in carbon dioxide and methane, the two major "greenhouse" gases blamed for trapping heat in the atmosphere, beginning in the 20th century, after remaining fairly level for 12,000 years.


This is the biggest departure from not only science, but simple logic.

More or less they're saying, "We think it's warmer, therefore it's a spike in carbon dioxide and methane".

They aren't accounting for any other possible causes.

"During a complete solar eclipse, I can't see my shadow. Therefore if I can't see my shadow we must be in a complete solar eclipse."

New storms have bubbled up to the surface of Jupiter. Most astronomers agree that it's because Jupiter is warming up. Am I the only one that sees the possibility that the sun is actually heating up? Out of 9 planets in our solar system we're seeing an increase in temperature on two of the planets (though at this point the rise on Jupiter is probably more substantiated).

Surely I'm not the only one that it's occured to that a rise in temp here might not be isolated to this planet, given what they're seeing on Jupiter.
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