back in the USSR
Vince wrote:Regardless of what he thought, that was one man's excesses and abuse of power. What the NSA is doing is a systemic abuse that cuts to the core of who we are as free Americans.
Never pegged you to be defending the NSA Malcolm.
One man's excesses, my ass. I would also classify Hoover as someone who revamped the entire federal intelligence/listening field to suit his goals. But then again, what do I know?
According to President Harry S. Truman, Hoover transformed the FBI into his private secret police force; Truman stated that "we want no Gestapo or secret police. The FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him".
It doesn't matter who the asshole is behind the camera or the wiretap. It doesn't matter if they work for the FBI or the KGB. It doesn't matter if it's 1964 or fifty years later.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Okay, for some reason my link initial hopped again to Hoover's wiretapping. Not House Un-American activities committee. Work browser is on meth or something.
The HUAC was not exactly awesome, but they did what they did in public. And to be fair, after the fall of the Soviets and many of their records were made public, it turns out there WERE some commies on the Kremlin payroll like Hiss that were being accused.
The HUAC was not exactly awesome, but they did what they did in public. And to be fair, after the fall of the Soviets and many of their records were made public, it turns out there WERE some commies on the Kremlin payroll like Hiss that were being accused.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Not sure what I'm supposed to gleam from the article on Cohn. Other than being a prosecutor, did he do some illegal wire tapping or something?
As for McCarthy. he was very crass in his methods and a drunk, but the declassification of the Venona documents showed had had cause for concern. His biggest problem was he didn't differentiate or give shelter for Communist sympathizers regardless of which party gave them government positions (and both parties had done it). So he was going to embarrass both parties. At that point he had no friends there.
As for McCarthy. he was very crass in his methods and a drunk, but the declassification of the Venona documents showed had had cause for concern. His biggest problem was he didn't differentiate or give shelter for Communist sympathizers regardless of which party gave them government positions (and both parties had done it). So he was going to embarrass both parties. At that point he had no friends there.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Okay, for some reason my link initial hopped again to Hoover's wiretapping. Not House Un-American activities committee. Work browser is on meth or something.
My original "link" is a two links in a single word. Each half is a separate link.
Other than being a prosecutor, did he do some illegal wire tapping or something?
He was McCarthy, Jr.
The HUAC was not exactly awesome, but they did what they did in public.
Bullshit.
The Rosenberg trial brought the 24-year-old Cohn to the attention of Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) director J. Edgar Hoover, who recommended him to Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy hired Cohn as his chief counsel, choosing him over Robert Kennedy, reportedly in part to avoid accusations of an anti-Semitic motivation for the investigations. Cohn assisted McCarthy's work for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, becoming known for his aggressive questioning of suspected Communists. Cohn preferred not to hold hearings in open forums. This mixed well with McCarthy's preference for holding "executive sessions" and "off-the-record" sessions away from the Capitol in order to minimize public scrutiny and to question witnesses with relative impunity. Cohn was given free rein in pursuit of many investigations, with McCarthy joining in only for the more publicized sessions.
Yep. Totally open and transparent.
...but the declassification of the Venona documents showed had had cause for concern
Sure, he had cause. I don't deny there were commie spies in America back then. However, since McCarthy, Hoover, and Cohn saw pretty much everyone as a domestic threat, it's only statistics that they'd be right a few times. It doesn't justify all the other shit they did when they wrongfully accused people and legally destroyed their lives.
Edited By Malcolm on 1395859555
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
What is it with people that can't understand that the HUAC was a House committee and Senator McCarthy was a senator and had nothing to do with the HUAC? The HUAC was the ones that dealt with Hollywood and actors and ruined people by innuendo. McCarthy was the one trying to root out communists that were serving in our government. Two completely different things. And they've been intermixed by left leaning communist sympathizers for decades for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because McCarthy was right and there were a number of communists that had infiltrated the US government. And while the public was against what happened to their beloved actors in Hollywood, they really didn't want commies in our government spying on us. So those two very different things became interchangeable because they had to taint what McCarthy was doing.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
I have no doubt that all those men would be giddy with joy if they had access to modern NSA domestic spying capabilities. The idea of listening in on every phonecall of every citizen would have been their ideal world.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
What is it with people that can't understand that the HUAC was a House committee and Senator McCarthy was a senator and had nothing to do with the HUAC?
Ok, so they were two independent assholes that played similar songs. The major leverage the HUAC had against you was your ass getting blacklisted and not finding work after pissing them off. You got called out in public and punished secretly. Still bullshit. And the HUAC held more than a couple closed sessions. Even better, back in the '30s, one of the chairmen of the HUAC was a paid Soviet agent.
...but I don't believe the government as a whole would have been okay with that.
I think you give the dudes from the era too much credit. They laid the foundation for all the governmental intrusion that goes on today.
Certainly the public wouldn't have been.
The public's not exactly ok with it now, we're just not willing to give up our technology for enhanced privacy yet, so we have no choice but to put up with it.
have no doubt that all those men would be giddy with joy if they had access to modern NSA domestic spying capabilities.
I think that may have been Hoover's definition of heaven.
Edited By Malcolm on 1395864861
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Especially if he got to wear a nice evening gown while listening in.Malcolm wrote:I think that may have been Hoover's definition of heaven.have no doubt that all those men would be giddy with joy if they had access to modern NSA domestic spying capabilities.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
McCarthy's biggest problem was that people still trusted the press and Ed Murrow was out to destroy him. Not saying McCarthy wasn't a dick, but you can be both a dick and correct.Malcolm wrote:Ok, so they were two independent assholes that played similar songs. The major leverage the HUAC had against you was your ass getting blacklisted and not finding work after pissing them off. You got called out in public and punished secretly. Still bullshit. And the HUAC held more than a couple closed sessions. Even better, back in the '30s, one of the chairmen of the HUAC was a paid Soviet agent.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Actually, that quote was not in reference to the FBI, but rather the OSS, which he disbanded in 1945 after WWII. Then the Venona files revealed to him how extensively we'd been penetrated by Soviet spies and he knew he and his party was screwed if they didn't treat the threat seriously. Thus, two years after abolishing the OSS, he created the CIA.Malcolm wrote:According to President Harry S. Truman, Hoover transformed the FBI into his private secret police force; Truman stated that "we want no Gestapo or secret police. The FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him".
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
How is it not referencing the FBI when the quote has "FBI" in it?
Had they kept their shit to investigating credible Soviet agents, I wouldn't care. They went after anyone who thought differently. Liberals, gays, Democrats, legitimate socialists and communists, and fuck only knows how many people they just plain didn't like. They fact that they happened to ferret out some genuine threats brings to mind old sayings about blind squirrels and broken clocks occasionally getting lucky.
Had they kept their shit to investigating credible Soviet agents, I wouldn't care. They went after anyone who thought differently. Liberals, gays, Democrats, legitimate socialists and communists, and fuck only knows how many people they just plain didn't like. They fact that they happened to ferret out some genuine threats brings to mind old sayings about blind squirrels and broken clocks occasionally getting lucky.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince wrote:Malcolm wrote:According to President Harry S. Truman, Hoover transformed the FBI into his private secret police force; Truman stated that "we want no Gestapo or secret police. The FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him".
Actually, that quote was not in reference to the FBI, but rather the OSS, which he disbanded in 1945 after WWII. Then the Venona files revealed to him how extensively we'd been penetrated by Soviet spies and he knew he and his party was screwed if they didn't treat the threat seriously. Thus, two years after abolishing the OSS, he created the CIA.
Thank Christ they were there to stop really important info from being leaked and warn us about impending threats ahead of time.
Edited By Malcolm on 1395868675
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Unfortunately we'd already been heavily infiltrated at that point started in the 30's as near as they can tell from the Venona intercepts. That's how we caught most of them. Too bad for Fuchs though. He was only involved peripherally, but due to the evidence that was public and the confidentiality of the Venona files he was executed when he probably wouldn't have been had the extent (or lack of) his involvement been know.Malcolm wrote:Thank Christ they were there to stop really important info from being leaked and warn us about impending threats ahead of time.
And let's be clear about the prosecution of homosexuals at that time, they were discriminated against because being gay was a shameful thing that people kept secret. It could be used to blackmail. People have extramarital affairs and with gambling problems were likewise scrutinized.
And "liberals" were discriminated against because before they were "liberals" they were calling themselves "progressives" (actual liberals prior to WWI we'd probably align more as libertarians today). And prior to WWII they were pioneers in eugenics and propaganda. Back then, people tended to remember that, though our education system today kind of whitewashes that whole thing.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Town in Ukraine worried about Russian troops. Can't understand why Steven Seagal's words didn't make them more relaxed.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
NATO responds ... kind of.
Dumb-ass.
Weird how that rate increase happens right now.
But despite the uncompromising language, Mr Rasmussen concluded by saying: "The only path to follow is the political and diplomatic path."
Dumb-ass.
Meanwhile, Russian energy firm Gazprom has announced an increase of the price it charges Ukraine for gas from Tuesday.
Gazprom's chief executive Alexei Miller said the price of Russian gas for Ukraine had gone up to $385.5 (£231) per 1,000 cubic metres in the second quarter of 2014 from the previous rate of $268.5.
Mr Miller added that Ukraine's unpaid gas bills to Russia stood at $1.7bn.
Weird how that rate increase happens right now.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Still going.
Obama's making the donkeys all look like geldings.
In the eastern city of Donetsk, pro-Russian separatists who seized the main administration building on the weekend and raised a Russian flag over it proclaimed Monday the creation of a "people's republic" independent of Ukrainian rule, according to Ukraine and Russian media.
...
Ukraine has pleaded for help from the West militarily. So far, the West has issued sanctions against some of Putin's inner circle and provided financial aid and prepared meals to Ukraine.
Obama's making the donkeys all look like geldings.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."