Detroit

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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote:
TheCatt wrote: Sure, culture needs to change. Maybe they could teach it in schools that are funded?
Yeah, I don't think culture is going to get changed in schools, funded or not.
Have your kids not come home telling you how everyone's raping the environment?
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Cakedaddy
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Post by Cakedaddy »

You could throw Grosse Pointe levels of money at those schools, but it's not going to make the kids learn. So many of those kids don't want to be there and aren't going to do anything regardless. I also believe you can teach/learn without ipads, smart boards, and glossy floors. I didn't have ipads or smart boards and did ok. Sure, I had glossy floors. But I don't think back, "Boy. Those glossy floors had a big impact on my early life. Sure glad I had them."

Some kids just want to see the world burn.
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Barriers to entry matter.
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Cakedaddy
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Too deep and cryptic for me.
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Too deep and cryptic for me.
Just saying, the harder it is for them to learn, the harder it will be, and the less likely they will to learn.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote:
Leisher wrote:
TheCatt wrote: Sure, culture needs to change. Maybe they could teach it in schools that are funded?
Yeah, I don't think culture is going to get changed in schools, funded or not.
Have your kids not come home telling you how everyone's raping the environment?
I laughed. It's a good point, but no they have not. This area leans Republican though, so the schools might not give a shit?

Like I said, I'm with you, but Gordon's point stands. NOT AT ALL SAYING ONLY BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED HERE, but black leaders have been fighting a culture war for a long time now. They say it's very difficult for black kids to grow up in what is typically a one parent household. A lot of times that parent not even being the actual parent. Household income is low. High crime area. Local heroes are athletes, drug dealers, gang bangers, etc. Hard work and schooling is mocked, while skirting the law is celebrated.

And those issues are obviously not specific to any one race. Poor folks are poor folks. All that shit covers them all. Hard to study to become a business person when your idol is Kim Kardashian.

Point being, I'll give a school an iPad right now, but I don't think Apple has an app that will counteract all those other negative influences.
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Post by GORDON »

Money doesn't educate kids, educators who give a shit, do. That includes parents.

I kind of hate that my kid has a school assigned iPad, and all school work is done on it. Used to be you get an assignment, then turn in a paper. Now there are a few layers in between those two simple steps for failure... Email is down, thought it was submitted but it wasnt, and "I know I submitted it but now it's gone from Google drive.". This is the crap I spend time on now . Ten minutes of homework, twenty minutes wrestling with the tech.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: I laughed. It's a good point, but no they have not. This area leans Republican though, so the schools might not give a shit?
I've always found educational systems to lean left of wherever they are. My kids have.
Leisher wrote: Like I said, I'm with you, but Gordon's point stands. NOT AT ALL SAYING ONLY BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED HERE, but black leaders have been fighting a culture war for a long time now. They say it's very difficult for black kids to grow up in what is typically a one parent household. A lot of times that parent not even being the actual parent. Household income is low. High crime area. Local heroes are athletes, drug dealers, gang bangers, etc. Hard work and schooling is mocked, while skirting the law is celebrated
Sure, but I'd rather give people support where we can.
Leisher wrote: I'll give a school an iPad right now,
the Ipad was a brick, not the whole building.

Our kids do lots of computer-based assignments. Give me that over papers they'll lose any day. There have been some tech issues, but many fewer than lost papers bck in the day.
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Cakedaddy
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Post by Cakedaddy »

They don't make Trapper Keepers any more? I don't remember ever losing a paper.

The only way to help those kids is to get them out of where they are. You can clean the school up and tech the shit out of it. But they still have all the shit distractions Leisher pointed out and the mindset. So many of those kids will still not give a shit and be a complete and total drain on the kids that do care. Those neighborhoods trump ANYthing money and a school can do. Get the good kids out. OR, keep the shit kids out of the schools. The schools will get cleaner over night. Teachers can spend time teaching and not disciplining, etc, etc. You can't change the ones that don't want to change. Get rid of them. Or at least keep them away from the good ones.

I still vote for busing the good students to good schools. The rest. . . I dunno. I don't want to say "fuck 'em". But coming up with a better idea is beyond my capabilities.

Somewhat related. . . When I was working at that jail, something happened. No, not that. I was in the general holding area. Where they do the in-processioning. They had a busy day that day, and it was crowded. Over crowded. They had more people than they did beds. So there were "mattresses" on the ground for the extras. One guy was bitching at the guards, but I was mostly ignoring it. But when he started venting to me, I was listening, but not responding. He said:
"Look at this shit. The floors are filthy, we have to sleep on the floor. They're treating us like fucking animals in here. This is bullshit." Went on for a little bit. Was really angry with the situation. All I could think of was "There's a solution to this. Do be in fucking jail dumbass." Then he said "This place is a fucking hole. The jail in Oakland County is way nicer." I wanted to laugh. Point is, not matter what, some people are just going to stay broken. They aren't worth your time. Just keep them away from sane, normal people as best/long as you can. And the chicks that would go there. Holy fuck shit. They would dump so much cash into the machines so their baby daddies could buy the extremely over priced candy bars and Ramen noodles. How broken do you have to be to think this is a good situation? Kids are on food stamps and government cheese and you're dumping 25% of your poverty level pay check into a machine for your criminal boy friend. I just wanted to smack them all. HARD. Fuck those people. Seriously. Fuck them in their goat asses. Complete waste of resources.

For the record. Complaining dude. White guy. Most of the chicks dumping cash in the machines, white. So, it's not a race thing. It's a class thing. In fact, thinking back, it seems like it was a mostly white jail. I just don't remember many black people. It was all white trash.

The only exception I'd make are for the learning impaired. They can't help being poor students. Send them to the good schools so they can get the proper care/counseling they need.

I'm all for providing a good, solid, free education. It's a good investment, obviously. But some people just don't want or deserve it. Get them out of the system. They are just fucking it up for others.

Detroit needs to make one good school and send all the kids there. They must perform or GTFO. The rest of the schools, triple the teacher's salaries and wish them luck. Maybe some really good teachers would get through and be able to save a few more. But keep the shit away from the good ones!
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Post by Vince »

When you're coming from a culture that's telling you math is racist, the kid that is motivated to get a good education will be the exception rather than the rule.
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Post by GORDON »

But there's only one fix for that, and it has been deemed racist.

If you aren't going to do the fix, there's no point throwing money at a broken thing. Money isn't the problem.
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Post by Vince »

Agree. A voucher system would help with a lot of this as well. Kids that come from a household that don't place a lot of value in education wouldn't be filling seats in the classrooms of the higher tier schools.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
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Post by Leisher »

Cakedaddy wrote: The only way to help those kids is to get them out of where they are. You can clean the school up and tech the shit out of it. But they still have all the shit distractions Leisher pointed out and the mindset. So many of those kids will still not give a shit and be a complete and total drain on the kids that do care. Those neighborhoods trump ANYthing money and a school can do. Get the good kids out. OR, keep the shit kids out of the schools. The schools will get cleaner over night. Teachers can spend time teaching and not disciplining, etc, etc. You can't change the ones that don't want to change. Get rid of them. Or at least keep them away from the good ones.
Toledo actually has something like this right now. Not sure how it works, but I know there's a school where kids who can't behave in their normal school get sent.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by GORDON »

Should be called "the army."
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
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