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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

P.S. Gordon is right about 3D printers.

The internet has made gun control obsolete.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: You're not trying.
Exactly, people have to put in effort. There's a barrier.
Leisher wrote: I really just want people to address the actual problem. I guess that's wrong?
Part of the problem is people can kill or injure 30 people in 30 seconds.
Leisher wrote: When the ban happens and the government orders people to turn in their guns, what happens what most of them don't? Are we throwing them all in jail? Are we raiding their houses in the middle of the night?
I'm not asking for that. I want universal background checks, and some restrictions on equipment.

But, let's see what happened with the recent bump stock ban
On March 23, 2018, the Department of Justice announced a plan to change the regulatory status of bump stocks. The proposed change would reclassify bump stocks as "machineguns" and effectively[Note 1] ban the devices in the United States under existing federal law.[12] A notice of proposed rulemaking was issued by the ATF on March 29, 2018, and opened for public comments.[26][13] Slightly more than 119,000 comments were submitted in support of the proposed rule, while slightly more than 66,000 comments expressed opposition to it.[15] On December 18, 2018, the final regulation to ban bump stocks was issued by the Department of Justice and published in the Federal Register on December 26.[15][27][10] The final rule states that "bump-stock-type devices" are covered by the Gun Control Act, as amended, which with limited exceptions, makes it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machine-gun unless it was lawfully possessed prior to 1986. Since the bump-stock-type devices covered by this final rule were not in existence prior to 1986, they would be prohibited when the rule becomes effective"[15] The ban went into effect on March 26, 2019, by which owners of bump stocks were required to destroy them or surrender them to ATF, punishable by 10 years imprisonment and $250,000 fine.[15][28]
From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_fire ... ire_stocks
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: P.S. Gordon is right about 3D printers.

The internet has made gun control obsolete.
3d printers are still shitty, unless you get super duper crazy expensive fancy ones.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

"Want to know how to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? Ban sober drivers from driving. That's how gun control works."

Or ban cars, I suppose, and let the criminals be the only ones still driving.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: "Want to know how to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? Ban sober drivers from driving. That's how gun control works."

Or ban cars, I suppose, and let the criminals be the only ones still driving.
It's more like increasing the burden to get a driver's license. And, keeping certain cars from people, which we already do with all kinds of safety regulation on cars.
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Post by GORDON »

And get olds off the roads,.faster.

And not let you drive until you're 18.

I'm a progressive thinker, I'm all for restricting as much personal freedom as necessary, for the greater good (the greater good).
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: And get olds off the roads,.faster.
Everyone's for that, but the olds.
GORDON wrote: And not let you drive until you're 18.
Already restricted in my state for ages 16 + 17 now.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Fuck the olds.

Carousel, Now.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Exactly, people have to put in effort. There's a barrier.
It's not much of a barrier, but I understand your sentiment. Still doesn't address how we're punishing the masses "just in case". Seems like this is the type of thing you've been staunchly against on other subjects. I mean, using the exact same logic, isn't it fair to say that we should ban alcohol because it kills vastly more people than guns each year? And seriously, do we need alcohol? What purpose does it serve? What "good" does it do society?
TheCatt wrote: Part of the problem is people can kill or injure 30 people in 30 seconds.
Of course, and McVeigh killed 300 in 1 second. Someone else is going to kill more in the same time without guns. I know it seems wild, but the availability of guns might actually be keeping a motivated person from figuring out a way to do more damage.

However, again I have to say that what a gun can do is irrelevant until we solve why people are doing this right now.
TheCatt wrote: I'm not asking for that. I want universal background checks, and some restrictions on equipment.
I already said I'm on board with UBCs, so why are you debating me? You bastard. And yes, certain equipment doesn't need to exist. I am, admittedly, a bit torn there though. If someone wants to buy an M16 with hollow tip bullets and a silencer, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
TheCatt wrote: But, let's see what happened with the recent bump stock ban
Again, a ban on something because, as a society, we think it's more important to give up our rights than to address the actual problem.

If you think a bump stock or an "assault rifle" is needed to pull off a mass shooting, you're simply ignorant of guns. Someone with the proper training and/or practice could easily commit a mass shooting with a handgun. My prediction is that's where we're headed, and the anti-gun folks won't stop until all guns are illegal and the government is going door to door to take gun owners' property from them.
TheCatt wrote: 3d printers are still shitty, unless you get super duper crazy expensive fancy ones.
Tech just gets better and better. The current goals for 3D printers, as you know, are to make them so good you can order and receive something within minutes because it'll just print out.
GORDON wrote: "Want to know how to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? Ban sober drivers from driving. That's how gun control works."
This is 100% accurate. The mass shooters aren't the ones being affected, nor are criminals. It's average, law abiding citizens who will be punished by these laws.

Guns made Russian generals realize a ground war in the U.S. was futile because they'd be fighting house to house due to the 2nd amendment. That is something that happened in our lifetime. Those same guns also are what freed us from an oppressor, but that didn't happen in our lifetime, so people forget and think "it can't happen again". Hilarious and mind boggling when you realize it's typically people on the left saying that, and they're in favor of a bigger government with more control over our lives.
GORDON wrote: for the greater good (the greater good).
I understood that reference.
GORDON wrote: Carousel, Now.
And that one.
TheCatt wrote: Already restricted in my state for ages 16 + 17 now.
No shit? Legally my oldest can start driving next year at 15 in MI.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by GORDON »

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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: It's not much of a barrier, but I understand your sentiment. Still doesn't address how we're punishing the masses "just in case". Seems like this is the type of thing you've been staunchly against on other subjects. I mean, using the exact same logic, isn't it fair to say that we should ban alcohol because it kills vastly more people than guns each year? And seriously, do we need alcohol? What purpose does it serve? What "good" does it do society?
It's fun, like shooting guns or smoking dope. That's good enough for me. We do police checkpoints, we have various bartender liabiltiy laws, etc for drunk driving. I feel like most alcohol related deaths are self inflicted, which I honestly don't care much about. I do care about drunk drivers hurting/killing others.
Leisher wrote: Of course, and McVeigh killed 300 in 1 second. Someone else is going to kill more in the same time without guns. I know it seems wild, but the availability of guns might actually be keeping a motivated person from figuring out a way to do more damage.

However, again I have to say that what a gun can do is irrelevant until we solve why people are doing this right now.
How long ago was McVeigh? We have a McVeigh a week in gun violence deaths (excluding suicides).
Leisher wrote: Again, a ban on something because, as a society, we think it's more important to give up our rights than to address the actual problem.
So we don't need a drinking age? Or smoking age? Or drunk driving laws? Where are you going with this? Do people have a right to automatic weapons? Does that right mean no regulations?
Leisher wrote: Tech just gets better and better. The current goals for 3D printers, as you know, are to make them so good you can order and receive something within minutes because it'll just print out.
Sure. Give them 20 years, and maybe they'll get there. The progress in the past 10 years has been slow.
Leisher wrote: If you think a bump stock or an "assault rifle" is needed to pull off a mass shooting, you're simply ignorant of guns. Someone with the proper training and/or practice could easily commit a mass shooting with a handgun.
This reinforces my point about barriers. Very few people have that proper training + practice.
Leisher wrote: No shit? Legally my oldest can start driving next year at 15 in MI.
Yeah. You can still drive at 16, but it's now a provisional license with all sorts of restrictions until you are 18. Like you can't have a car full of teenagers and some other shit. You have to have a leaner's permit for a full year prior, you have to log 60 hours of driving with your parent, can only drive by yourself from 5am to 9pm. Admittedly, teen drivers do stupid fucking things, speaking from experience.
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Post by GORDON »

I don't like the high "gun violence numbers" stats when they include accidents. Might as well call all fatal car crashes, "Car violence deaths."
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: I don't like the high "gun violence numbers" stats when they include accidents. Might as well call all fatal car crashes, "Car violence deaths."
Fine, take out 1,000 of the 15,000 deaths. Only 14,000 people per year? That's nothing.
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Post by GORDON »

I can accept that people will use manipulative language in their statistics, but I require that they apply their manipulation across the board to all data they cite.
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Post by TheCatt »

Ah... so now the people with mental illnesses are being triggered (on my FB, and I assume on Twitter, cuz twitter) by people blaming mental illness for school shootings.
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Post by GORDON »

It is a bum rap, not all people with mental illness are murderers, but I'd posit that almost all murderers have mental illness.

And IDGAF if they're triggered.
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Troy
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Post by Troy »

I think we can all agree firing into a melee of small children and 30-50 feral hogs requires at minimum, a semi automatic rifle. Grenades too if you don’t mind messing up your landscaping.
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Post by GORDON »

It's efficient, but I don't think I'd say it was required.
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Post by Vince »

Troy wrote: I think we can all agree firing into a melee of small children and 30-50 feral hogs requires at minimum, a semi automatic rifle. Grenades too if you don’t mind messing up your landscaping.
Or small gang of armed intruders entering your home.
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Post by Vince »

"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
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