These shootings scare people because they're not happening overseas or in the ghetto. They're happening at festivals, concerts, schools, etc.
They don't want the realities of life invading these "safe spaces", thus it creates a lot of strong opinions.
However, anyone who thinks banning guns, or even just "assault rifles", will end these shootings is either a fucking moron, pushing an agenda, or just completely ignorant of the facts and human nature.
Gun Control catch all
Gun Control catch all
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Gun Control catch all
Cops had the guy down in 30 seconds. You're telling me his choice of weaponry wasn't a factor? Or, the tired "criminals will get the guns anyways" argument?
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
I jokingly posed the question, "Yeah but I wouldn't use an AR15 for assault, I would use it for defense of my home. Does it then become a Defense Rifle? Hell," I continued from the couch, in the dark, watching TV, "If someone busts in the door right now, I'm going to hit them with this Assault Hot Tea." Then I took a noisy sip.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
Criminals WILL get guns anyway. It can't be handwaved away as a tired argument.
It's the mentally ill that we're already being negligent about handling.
It's the mentally ill that we're already being negligent about handling.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
Prohibitions work, to some degree, varying based on a large number of circumstances + conditions.
I'd still argue both.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
War on drugs, complete failure and mexican cartels rode the wave. 1930s war on alcohol, complete failure and chicago gangsters rode the wave.
I'd love to see what a crime organization based on firepower would look like. Fuck it.... bring it!
I'd love to see what a crime organization based on firepower would look like. Fuck it.... bring it!
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
It absolutely was a factor. But again, why did this guy have access to it? He was previously brought in and found to have a hit list. Why the fuck would he ever be allowed near such weapons?
Also, Timothy McVeigh didn't fire a single shot and his kill count makes this guy's blush.
Why is that "tired"? Is it because it's true and there's no actual counter for it, so people call it "tired" to dismiss it? The strictest gun laws in the country can be found in cities with the highest gun deaths. Ask Chicago.
What happens after you ban "assault weapons" (which don't actually exist)? Who is going around and collecting them? How are you getting them out of the hands of your citizens? You think that isn't the exact scenario the forefathers wrote the 2nd amendment to stop from happening? You think gun manufacturers will stop making and selling them? Like how pharmaceutical companies did with opiods? You think selling them in countries like Mexico will stop them from coming over the border? That border is air tight, right?
A gun has never killed a single thing in history. People kill people using guns. Yes, certain guns make that very easy, but the leading gun used in the U.S. for murder is the handgun. So unless you're advocating a complete ban on all guns...
Banning guns won't stop these psychos from seeking attention and killing people. They will simply find other methods, and possibly far, far more deadly methods. Granted, it'll make it far more difficult for most of these shooters, but it will direct them in different directions.
The crux of my feelings on this issue is that we are not addressing the actual cause. We're simply going after a tool the killers use. There are other tools. They will find and use them. Meanwhile, you've just taken away other people's rights who were 100% law abiding citizens.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Gun Control catch all
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opin ... ccess.htmlSecond, alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.
Additionally, the article points how how prohibition was undermanned and underlawed. Strong actions on either front would have had more impact.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
Because we don't have universal background checks? (I dunno for certain if they would have resolved this issue). Because the NRA pumps tens of millions of $ into politicians?
See the above about prohibition. Chicago's not an island. It would take uniform laws + enforcement.
Dunno, what happened when we did that for 8 years? Mass shootings + victims declined.Leisher wrote: What happens after you ban "assault weapons" (which don't actually exist)? Who is going around and collecting them? How are you getting them out of the hands of your citizens? You think that isn't the exact scenario the forefathers wrote the 2nd amendment to stop from happening? You think gun manufacturers will stop making and selling them?
I'm fine with that. Post McVeigh, if you order a bunch of fertilizer, you're going to be on a list. Systems improve in response to new actions. The world is not static.
The other tools are harder to get, make, or use.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think we can have more restrictions on guns to reduce gun deaths.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
Yes, a much stronger police state is what we'd need. Sweet.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
I'm not completely against the idea of AUTOMATED public surveillance. Short of checkpoints on every street corner, constantly being scanned for guns while on your way to the school is possibly the next best solution, if we refuse to separate the mentally ill from society.
Constantly being frisked and searched by police is going to lead to resentment and problems (since we also refuse to DEMAND professionalism from all police), and at least passive surveillance isn't always confronting you and making you angry (usually).
Constantly being frisked and searched by police is going to lead to resentment and problems (since we also refuse to DEMAND professionalism from all police), and at least passive surveillance isn't always confronting you and making you angry (usually).
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
I'm all for governmental facial recognition, etc.GORDON wrote: I'm not completely against the idea of AUTOMATED public surveillance. Short of checkpoints on every street corner, constantly being scanned for guns while on your way to the school is possibly the next best solution, if we refuse to separate the mentally ill from society.
Constantly being frisked and searched by police is going to lead to resentment and problems (since we also refuse to DEMAND professionalism from all police), and at least passive surveillance isn't always confronting you and making you angry (usually).
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
I just realized why we don't want to lock up the mentally ill. BECAUSE THEY VOTE DEMOCRAT HA HA HA HA
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
Fair, however this is where the system failed. This kid is clearly someone who at least toyed with the idea of being a shooter. His access to any firearms, and the access for those he lived with should have been permanently revoked. Pretty sure the Sandy Hook guy had a similar situation.
As for the universal background checks...We don't even have a universal law enforcement records system. And did I ever mention my dad has his own company that does pre-employment screenings and fraud investigations? There is no universal system that holds everyone's records.
The United States is also not an island.
I am a vet without a criminal record. I shouldn't have my right to purchase fire arms taken away because of some teenager in El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, etc. Today it's guns, tomorrow it's speech because we don't have guns anymore.
When we did what? Not sure what you're referring to?
Do you remember all the mass shootings from prior to the 1990s? Were guns invented in 1990?
You're fine with it because you're not being creative about it. People will find a way. Like the folks driving cars into crowds. Cheap bombs that can be found all over the internet. Knife attacks. The arsonist who burnt his former building down with everyone inside. And various other ways my sick mind has thought up, but I don't want to share and give people ideas.
I will say that banning guns will be like banning drugs. How's that working out?
You have to figure out WHY. Removing a single tool from a toolbox and thinking you've stopped the carpenter is fucking ignorant.
I'm not even arguing against that. I'm fine with stricter rules on getting weapons like that, but it should still be possible for a citizen with a perfect record to buy said weapons. Put strict restrictions on behavior allowed from that person and those who live under their roof. That's fine.
But find out WHY these things are happening now.
I truly do believe that a big part of why nobody is digging into "WHY" is because they know they're not going to like the answer.
Right?
To be fair, you want to take away their guns and use cameras to follow them everywhere they go. Not sure Trump's suggestion is out of that same ballpark.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Gun Control catch all
Right, but I think the idea of the bills is to create one.Leisher wrote: Fair, however this is where the system failed. This kid is clearly someone who at least toyed with the idea of being a shooter. His access to any firearms, and the access for those he lived with should have been permanently revoked. Pretty sure the Sandy Hook guy had a similar situation.
As for the universal background checks...We don't even have a universal law enforcement records system. And did I ever mention my dad has his own company that does pre-employment screenings and fraud investigations? There is no universal system that holds everyone's records.
It's a matter of scale. If you can drive 1 mile outside of Chicago and get the guns, the law is useless. The borders are much harder to get through than the interstate.
1994 to 2004
I don't know about you, but I cannot just walk to the corner and get drugs. In fact, I've only bought them in legal places in the past 2 decades. Which means only recently. It's not great, but it could do something.
Ah, but I want the government to do it. I don't want to take away many guns. I don't want to go full China like Trump does.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Gun Control catch all
As long as I can buy a 3D printer and download a gun, I'm super happy. Ban away. It'll work.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Gun Control catch all
I'm on board for that.
Like it's hard to get drugs, Cuban cigars, or find an illegal immigrant living near you?
I would argue there are other significant changes in our society between now and then as well.
You're not trying. Drugs are everywhere. There's an opiod epidemic throughout the states.
Also, weighing the pros versus the cons, not sure I want to give up the 2nd amendment for "could do". You want to know what's a tired argument? "You don't need guns to protect you from the government anymore." You know who says that? People about to be oppressed by their government or the government that wants to oppress its people.
I really just want people to address the actual problem. I guess that's wrong?
I asked this previously, but you didn't answer it. When the ban happens and the government orders people to turn in their guns, what happens what most of them don't? Are we throwing them all in jail? Are we raiding their houses in the middle of the night?
That's a legit concern.
Now let me have a bit of fun here...
Heard a really interesting tidbit this weekend thanks to the Timesuck podcast. A German woman whose parents lived in Germany pre-WWII explained to her how the German government was able to get the German people to be ok with blaming the Jewish people for everything. As it turns out, the Jewish people really took advantage of post-WWI Germany and were profiting immensely. They also tended to treat the German people as lessers. So when Hitler and his cronies came to power blaming the Jews for things, the German people went along with it, but had no idea where it would end. (Side Note: The woman very, very strongly pointed out that her letter did not condone, in any way, what Germany did to the Jewish people. She just wanted to share something she never heard talked about. The host, Dan Cummings, agreed stating that many time throughout history we see the "losers" as innocent victims, and that's not always the case.)
Disarming the Jewish people, while strengthening gun rights for other Germans, did happen prior to WWII. Now let me ask you this: "Who is blamed for everything negative in the U.S.? Who do minorities have to create 'safe spaces' to hide from? Who has 'all the power' in our society and opponents openly discuss removing from power and saying things like 'their time is up' or 'they've had their chance'?" Would it really be a crazy stretch of the imagination for straight white men to get nervous about giving up their guns in a world that hates them?
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”