Diet....contest?

You probably can't do it, so don't even try.
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thibodeaux
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Postby thibodeaux » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:16 pm

Leisher wrote:
As for fiber: you don't need fiber.


You've got to prove that one to me. Is it in the book? Or are you just saying the diet gives you fiber?

Who proved it to you that NEED fiber? The idea that fiber=teh goodness is of a piece with the "heart-healthy whole-grain" stuff. It's bad pseudo-science.

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Postby GORDON » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:18 pm

thibodeaux wrote:
GORDON wrote:And out of curiosity, Thib, what do you have against cardio?

Cardio is stupid. It's damaging to your body and it's a timesuck.

Damaging to your body? Explain.
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Postby thibodeaux » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:23 pm

I updated my post a bit, but read this:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/

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Postby GORDON » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:34 pm

thibodeaux wrote:I updated my post a bit, but read this:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/

The first signal I had that something was wrong was when I developed debilitating osteoarthritis in my ankles…at age 28. This was soon coupled with chronic hip tendonitis and nagging recurrent upper respiratory tract infections. In retrospect, it is clear now that my carbohydrate-fueled high-intensity aerobic lifestyle was promoting a dangerous level of continuous systemic inflammation, was severely suppressing other parts of my immune system and the increased oxidative damage was generally tearing apart my precious muscle and joint tissue.


He has other problems besides cardio... the ridiculous amount he seemed to do. Sounds like he had a stupid shitty diet too, I bet he was taking a bunch of supplements instead of real food.

Some people just aren't built to handle that level of activity. A lot of Marines get discharged for bad knees within their first 4 year contract, for example.

So this is one guy saying cardio is bad, vs. decades of research that says otherwise.... I aint convinced, yet.

And for an anecdote, 20 minutes on the elliptical machine gets my heart rate gong, is low impact and wouldn't cause the problems the above guy had, and improves my "wind." Maybe we are living in a post-physical society, but I don't like getting winded when I go out to weed the garden. If I would never exercise, that's what happens.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:42 pm

Bottom line: Fats and ATP were the two primary energy sources for locomotion: we either moved slowly and steadily or “fight or flight” fast, and we became stronger and healthier the more we used only those energy systems.


That is incorrect. ATP is the only thing cells/mitochondria use for energy.

The stress of high intensity training was also leaving me soaking in my own internal cortisol (stress hormone) bath. It wasn’t so clear to me at the time exactly what was happening – in fact it was quite confusing, since I was doing so much of this so-called “healthy” aerobic exercise – but I had no choice but to give up racing, unable to train at anywhere near the intensity required to stay at an elite level.


He burned himself out and doesn't understand how since he's such an awesome person, so he must have been lied to about exercise.

:-D
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Postby thibodeaux » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:51 pm

Believe what you want. I'd rather spend 20 minutes a week lifting weights and get bigger and stronger, vs. spending several hours a week for less results.

It also cures getting winded.

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Postby GORDON » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

It's cool and everything, but really... one guy? Is there any actual research into what he says? Does anyone who isn't you agree with him? Not that CONSENSUS matters, but at least in this case there isn't any research grant money tied up with proving cardio is bad.

What does lifting weights for 20 minutes a week enable you to do? I assume you aren't running any marathons any time soon.

Actually, my diet thread is getting derailed.
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Postby GORDON » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:06 pm

Welp, never mind. Finally got to the bottom of the article:

Knowing what we know about our hunter-gatherer ancestors and the DNA blueprint, we would ideally devise an aerobics plan that would have us walking or hiking several hours a day to maximize our true fat-burning systems and then doing intermittent “life or death” sprints every few days to generate those growth spurts that create stronger, leaner muscle.

However, since allocating a few hours a day to this pursuit is impractical for most people, we can still create a plan that has a fair amount of low level aerobic movement, such as walking briskly, hiking, cycling at a moderate pace, etc a few times a week and keep it at under an hour. Then, we can add a few intense “interval” sessions, where we literally sprint (or cycle or do anything intensely) for 20, 30 or 40 seconds at a time all out, and do this once or twice a week.


And that's what I do. With a little weight training thrown in because that just feels good.




Edited By GORDON on 1292458046
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Postby thibodeaux » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:41 pm

GORDON wrote:It's cool and everything, but really... one guy? Is there any actual research into what he says? Does anyone who isn't you agree with him? Not that CONSENSUS matters, but at least in this case there isn't any research grant money tied up with proving cardio is bad.

Yes, there is a pretty good consensus in the paleo community that cardio---in the sense of stuff like running on the treadmill for hours a week---is bad. It's not just one guy.

There's probably research to back it up, but I don't really know or care. Most of what passes for science these days is BS, mainly due to the grant money. The fact is that if you jog, you're gonna get injured. If you're just walking, great. That's not going to hurt you. But there's no substitute for strength training.

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Postby TPRJones » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:47 pm

I still fit through the door.

Progress!
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Postby Leisher » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:39 pm

I think Thib is more right than wrong on cardio. I remember seeing something about new theories that too much cardio actually overworks the heart. Perhaps that's what happened to Jim Fixx.

Apparently, you can't sit still forever, nor can you run forever, as both are bad for your heart.

Moderation.

That's why I'm skeptical of any diets where you eliminate something (like Adkins). It always seems like the healthiest choice lies somewhere in the middle.
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Postby TheCatt » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:00 am

Just look at marathoners in their 30s and 40s. Ick.
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Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:42 am

If the human species had needed to evolve to run dozens of miles on a frequent basis, our anatomy would look LOTS different. Selection favoured something else for a reason, I'd wager. On the other hand, being completely sedentary will kill your ass.
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Postby thibodeaux » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:18 am

Leisher wrote:That's why I'm skeptical of any diets where you eliminate something (like Adkins). It always seems like the healthiest choice lies somewhere in the middle.

Except humans didn't eat grains until very recently (historically speaking). Some groups didn't eat them until modern times, after contact with Western civ. Some groups still don't eat them.

Grains are CLEARLY unhealthy and unnecessary. Why is it the "healthiest choice" to eat them? The middle between "right" (no grains) and "disastrously wrong" (lots of grains) is still wrong.

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Postby GORDON » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:25 am

Civilization first rose in Mesopotamia approx 10k years ago with the advent of agriculture, when one person could then feed two, leaving one person free to do something besides gathering food all day. I always assumed they were farming grains, though I guess I don't know for certain right at this moment.

Civilization in China was certainly founded on millet... as far as what my Ancient Civ prof told me 20 years ago.

SO..... geologically and evolutionarily speaking, 10k years ago is a blink, but it is the entirety of human history, strictly speaking.

I really should stop discussing this because I honestly don't care. :-D
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Postby thibodeaux » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:50 am

GORDON wrote:Civilization first rose in Mesopotamia approx 10k years ago with the advent of agriculture, when one person could then feed two, leaving one person free to do something besides gathering food all day. I always assumed they were farming grains, though I guess I don't know for certain right at this moment.

Civilization in China was certainly founded on millet... as far as what my Ancient Civ prof told me 20 years ago.

SO..... geologically and evolutionarily speaking, 10k years ago is a blink, but it is the entirety of human history, strictly speaking.

Yes, it's the entirety of RECORDED human history, but anatomically modern humans have been around 200k years. And yes, agriculture is what made civilization, but if you look at the bones of the people that adopted it, vs. the bones of their contemporaneous hunter-gatherer neighbors, the farmers were smaller and sicker.

Can people eat grains and survive, even flourish? Of course; it's obvious. Should YOU eat grains? No, not if you want to be the healthiest you can be.




Edited By thibodeaux on 1292507681

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Postby TheCatt » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:47 am

Or... just grow a gizzard.
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Postby TPRJones » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:48 am

Mmmmm ... I think I'll have fried gizzards for lunch ...
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Postby GORDON » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:58 am

On King of the Hill last night the family went to a BBQ place.... Peggy was loving the hush puppies... made me want to go to Memphis SO BAD.

Actually had a talk with the wife to check the feasibility of me and my son popping down there for a few days after xmas.

Turns out it is either Memphis, or more lumber for the basement project. Sigh.
Fuuuuuuck YOU.

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Postby GORDON » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:59 am

TheCatt wrote:Or... just grow a gizzard.

People don't need a gizzard, they have molars that are already designed to chew grains.
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