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Cakedaddy
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Post by Cakedaddy »

As soon as you called them forced, slave labor, you lost.

If they allow them to come back after entering the draft, and lose, then:

1. The school doesn't have to take them back if they don't want to.
2. If the school doesn't take them back, they have 1 year of ineligibility just like now, when they change schools.

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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: They're getting paid (Both scholarship and under the table), they barely have to attend classes (especially at UNC ), they get prime pussy thrown at them non-stop, they're treated like kings, they get a full free analysis of where they will be drafted, and they have the freedom to make whatever choice they want. I just ask that they stand by that choice just like people have to do in real life.
But are those in line with market demands for those people, or is that market being artificially distorted by the NCAA and member institutions? You cannot tell me that these people are receiving the full benefits of their marketability.
Leisher wrote: Under the current system I don't understand how anyone could think it's fair to tell every student-athlete to enter their sport's draft every year until they're taken at a spot they desire. You make it impossible to recruit new players because you have no idea who is leaving and who is staying.
This is crap. There's a 3 WEEK gap between exiting the draft and the draft. You're telling me that 3 more weeks COMPLETELY FUCKS UP THE ENTIRE WORLD? That's utter BULLSHIT and you know it.
If they join the college then they need to live by the rules of the college. You don't get to spit on the sidewalk in Singapore, why would you get to break the rules colleges and the NBA set up?
Sure, if they want sub-par coaching and to be forced to live in a different market. Go back to my first point. This is just about control.
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Note to self: Do not EVER enter into any kind of business venture with Catt.
[video][/video]
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: As soon as you called them forced, slave labor, you lost.
Sometimes I exaggerate for fun and profit.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

You may be exaggerating, but it's still a linchpin of your argument.

Not only are they being handsomely compensated for their labor, they are not forced to be there.

Entry level positions pay entry level salaries. And college sports is entry level in that industry. They quickly develop skills and become much more valuable (or so they think in some cases) and they move on.

IBM makes billions per year as well. Out of high school, I could get a job there. Should I make a million dollar salary from day one just because the company I'm working for makes billions? (non-researched numbers. Insert billion dollar company in place of IBM if needed.) Instead, I work my ass off the first handful of years getting paid shit, but gaining priceless knowledge and industry experience. Then I use that to get a better paying job.
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Instead, I work my ass off the first handful of years getting paid shit, but gaining priceless knowledge and industry experience.
Bad analogy though, since I'm sure plenty of those teams would throw some millions at the kids if they were allowed to.
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Post by Leisher »

Cakedaddy wrote: As soon as you called them forced, slave labor, you lost.
Yep.
TheCatt wrote: But are those in line with market demands for those people, or is that market being artificially distorted by the NCAA and member institutions? You cannot tell me that these people are receiving the full benefits of their marketability.
You're right. On average they're grossly overpaid.
This is crap. There's a 3 WEEK gap between exiting the draft and the draft. You're telling me that 3 more weeks COMPLETELY FUCKS UP THE ENTIRE WORLD? That's utter BULLSHIT and you know it.
You're 100% correct of course. 3 weeks. Let's not talk about national letter of intent day is in January or how schools are already recruiting their 2019 classes. OSU's is almost already filled. I guess 2019 is 3 weeks away!
TheCatt wrote: Sure, if they want sub-par coaching and to be forced to live in a different market. Go back to my first point. This is just about control.
So they should sit around forever and possibly get fucked over for good schools? You are seriously misinformed about the college recruiting process.
Cakedaddy wrote: You may be exaggerating, but it's still a linchpin of your argument.

Not only are they being handsomely compensated for their labor, they are not forced to be there.

Entry level positions pay entry level salaries. And college sports is entry level in that industry. They quickly develop skills and become much more valuable (or so they think in some cases) and they move on.

IBM makes billions per year as well. Out of high school, I could get a job there. Should I make a million dollar salary from day one just because the company I'm working for makes billions? (non-researched numbers. Insert billion dollar company in place of IBM if needed.) Instead, I work my ass off the first handful of years getting paid shit, but gaining priceless knowledge and industry experience. Then I use that to get a better paying job.
Yes to all this.
TheCatt wrote: Bad analogy though, since I'm sure plenty of those teams would throw some millions at the kids if they were allowed to.
Except for the FACT that the NFL set the rules. Meaning they DON'T want these kids until they're ready.
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Post by TheCatt »

I should have known better than to argue with two union-loving socialists.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I was going to argue that some kids do go directly to pro from high school.

You might be able to argue collusion, but not socialism.
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: but not socialism.
Tell me again how Kentucky is allowed to pay their players market rates? Oh, right....
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Are they not getting an education? Are they not getting access to top notch coaching staff that's grooming them for their pro career? If not, why'd they pick that school? OH, wait, did the pros make the kids an offer and Kentucky said "No, you have to play here"? I really do need more information because that statement was too vague for me.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: I should have known better than to argue with two union-loving socialists.
I laughed.
Cakedaddy wrote: I was going to argue that some kids do go directly to pro from high school.
The NBA is seeing a record number of them this year.
TheCatt wrote: Tell me again how Kentucky is allowed to pay their players market rates? Oh, right....
$176,352 is MORE than most are worth.
Cakedaddy wrote: OH, wait, did the pros make the kids an offer and Kentucky said "No, you have to play here"? I really do need more information because that statement was too vague for me.
Right?

But...but...he has the right to go pro! Of course! He can go to the CFL or maybe the AAF or the XFL, but the NFL doesn't want them.
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Post by TheCatt »

Cakedaddy wrote: Are they not getting an education? Are they not getting access to top notch coaching staff that's grooming them for their pro career? If not, why'd they pick that school? OH, wait, did the pros make the kids an offer and Kentucky said "No, you have to play here"? I really do need more information because that statement was too vague for me.
Is there an artificial ceiling to what Kentucky can offer, or can they offer more than other schools?
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: $176,352 is MORE than most are worth.
Most kids, sure. But what about the ones that Duke + Kentucky recruit that could easily be making millions already?

Let's say 350 Div I schools, 15 kids per school, that's 5,250 kids. The NCAA generates $900M from March Madness alone. This doesn't include school revenues, booster donations, etc. Schools make about 9B off of D1 sports, but I have no idea the football/basketball split. Let's just say 25% basketball for simplicity. (Unsure if that includes any donations, sales of clothing, etc)

That's about $3B/year. That's $571,428 per player. Take half of that for administrative (coaches, etc), and it's still more than $250k/kid/yr of revenue. And that's almost $200k/kid just based on March Madness ALONE, an activity that only 68 teams make it to.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote:
Cakedaddy wrote: Are they not getting an education? Are they not getting access to top notch coaching staff that's grooming them for their pro career? If not, why'd they pick that school? OH, wait, did the pros make the kids an offer and Kentucky said "No, you have to play here"? I really do need more information because that statement was too vague for me.
Is there an artificial ceiling to what Kentucky can offer, or can they offer more than other schools?
Depends on what you're looking for in education, location, coaches, TV exposure, women, etc.
TheCatt wrote: Most kids, sure. But what about the ones that Duke + Kentucky recruit that could easily be making millions already?
Ah, you're trying to stick to BBall? Again, those kids have the option to go pro out of high school. One idiot went pro during his junior year of high school. They can go to Europe or China and make millions IF they're worth it. (The vast majority aren't.)

The NBA made the "one and done" rule, NOT the NCAA. So again, why do you think they should be forced to hire people they don't want to hire?
TheCatt wrote: Let's say 350 Div I schools, 15 kids per school, that's 5,250 kids. The NCAA generates $900M from March Madness alone. This doesn't include school revenues, booster donations, etc. Schools make about 9B off of D1 sports, but I have no idea the football/basketball split. Let's just say 25% basketball for simplicity. (Unsure if that includes any donations, sales of clothing, etc)

That's about $3B/year. That's $571,428 per player. Take half of that for administrative (coaches, etc), and it's still more than $250k/kid/yr of revenue. And that's almost $200k/kid just based on March Madness ALONE, an activity that only 68 teams make it to.
Your numbers are right, but you're leaving a LOT out. Mainly expenses.

First, of the 231 schools 76% make less than $50 million annually off basketball. 24 schools make more than $100 million.

Second, basketball and Football fund ALL other sports. That's uniforms, recruiting, travel, hotels, food, equipment, scholarships, etc. Schools with football spend $91,936 per student athlete annually (number is from 2010). Without football that number is $39,201. OSU has 1038 student athletes. That's $95,429,568 on student athletes at OSU annually (Again, 2010 numbers.).

Third, most colleges LOSE money on sports.

Fourth, consider that the VAST majority of college athletes will never sniff the pros, understand that most greatly exaggerate their worth both in college and in the pros.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I'm bowing out of this conversation. I'm not comfortable with being on the same side of an argument as Leisher. There's just something wrong with saying "Leisher is right".
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Post by TheCatt »

OSU has its own sexual assaulting doctor problem. This time, it's men. And he apparently died 13 years ago.
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Post by Leisher »

Yuck. Won't be justice either since he's dead.
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Post by TheCatt »

Wendell Carter's mom says Leisher and Cake can suck it.

Although...
"When you remove all the bling and the bells and the sneakers and all that," she said, "you've paid for a child to come to your school to do what you wanted them to do for you, for free, and you made a lot of money when he did that, and you've got all these rules in place that say he cannot share in any of that. The only other time when labor does not get paid but yet someone else gets profits and the labor is black and the profit is white, is in slavery.
She kinda immediately contradicts herself.
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Post by Leisher »

She's an idiot, and the fact that this is "front page" material tells you that A) It's a slow news day and B) Someone is pushing an agenda.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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