NCAA

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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

It's gonna suck if your team gets hit and some good players are out and you lose a game that way. I guess it happens today with flu, etc, but maybe different this time.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: It's gonna suck if your team gets hit and some good players are out and you lose a game that way. I guess it happens today with flu, etc, but maybe different this time.
Not just the flu, but injuries. Part of the game.

There's still talk of moving the season to spring.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Leisher »

OSU-Oregon game looks to be in jeopardy.

NFL coach who gets annihilated on the recruiting trail wants to tilt things in his favor.

Apparently, he also wants oversigning to be a thing in the B1G, which isn't going to happen.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: OSU-Oregon game looks to be in jeopardy.
Feels a little early to make that call.
Leisher wrote: NFL coach who gets annihilated on the recruiting trail wants to tilt things in his favor.
I basically agree with him.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: I basically agree with him.
No you don't. You believe in the fallacy that letting them go pro is some sort of free market in action.

You certainly don't agree with his reasons why, which is you think is "for" the kids you're delusional.

As for that free market bullshit, you're essentially forcing an employer to hire people they don't think are qualified to hire. Also, there's a Canadian league they can go play in...
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: You believe in the fallacy that letting them go pro is some sort of free market in action.
Weird how being free means free market.
Leisher wrote: As for that free market bullshit, you're essentially forcing an employer to hire people they don't think are qualified to hire. Also, there's a Canadian league they can go play in...
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. You are. Canada? Go hug a maple tree.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Weird how being free means free market.
Wake me up when we actually have one or a populace able to properly use their power in one.
TheCatt wrote: I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. You are.
The NFL doesn't want them. You want to force them to hire kids before they're ready.
TheCatt wrote:Canada? Go hug a maple tree.
It's closer than Europe!
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: The NFL doesn't want them. You want to force them to hire kids before they're ready.
You cannot force anyone to hire anyone. If they want to hire this person because they are scared of losing out to the competition, that's called the free market.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: You cannot force anyone to hire anyone.
Well, you say that, but you most certainly can. You do so by dictating who they can't hire. Or by simply proclaiming they aren't hiring enough _____________. And clearly, someone will (has?) make the argument that the NFL making kids wait to reach a certain age is racist.

In this case, the free market would be very wrong. Several medical and science folks have come out against letting younger players into the NFL. They believe the body needs that additional time to prepare for the faster and harder hitting game in the NFL. It's a belief NFL scouts and coaches also believe. People forget that this is a huge part of why the NFL has the age restriction. Not to mention there's a large percentage of the shrink community who think it's irresponsible to give young adults this level of money without an education or other protections.

By trying to force the NFL to drop their age requirements you're punishing multiple groups in the name of "free market" when, in fact, it's creating a false market.

First, the kids get punished in multiple ways. Sure, they get a contract, but it's going to be for a minimum amount of money. Certainly not enough to live on for the rest of their lives. You've also just denied them a free education, which in our Idiocracy society is deemed to have zero value for some reason. Finally, you've very much put them in harm's way. You always hear players marvel about the difference between college and pro. Imagine the difference between high school and pro. These high school kids are going to get hurt. Many will be put out of the game permanently before they were ever ready to sign a big contract.

Second, you hurt teams. Because someone will inevitably reach for a high school player it will cause bullshit demand for lesser product. Now the teams will shed better talent in favor of cheaper projects. Is it the teams' own fault? Yep. However, we created it by forcing lesser product into the market. You're creating fake demand for a product nobody wants. These GMs HAVE TO follow trends or take chances because most of them don't have any career longevity. Plus, they usually get 2 shots max, if they're lucky, to be successful. It's like giving the reins of the economy to a gambling addict, telling him/her they MUST make a ridiculous profit in a calendar year, and then giving him/her the option of using the federal budget to play blackjack.

Third, you hurt other players who will get cut so a high school kid can get signed. You may deem them expendable, and "that's the market", but again, you brought in a cheaper and worse product (one of the banes of our society right now) to replace more talented players. You've lowered career lengths and maximum potential earnings.

Fourth, the fans get hurt with shittier teams, players who get hurt more often, less knowledge of who anyone is (who follows high school football nationally?), and so on.

You don't have to agree back "Free Market!". I get it. I know what it is and I, typically, fully believe in it (although I don't believe it can stand on its own, but that's a different discussion for a different thread).

However, I don't think any issue is really black and white. I think there is always a gray area somewhere, and this happens to be one of them. I believe in this case, the overall net win is to continue to let the NFL dictate when they think it's safe to sign players, and thus, not allow a free market for the three years players exist between high school and their junior year of college. At the end of the day, this is the NFL's rule not the NCAA's.

Oh, and the kids can absolutely still go play in Canada or one of the other foreign leagues. Hell, they also had the XFL as an option, and one player went that route, but the free market said "fuck that".

Sorry for the rant. I'm super bored this morning. I completely agree with your viewpoint, but at the same time I just think this is one of those areas where it makes sense to go against what would seem to be "right" at face value.
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Several medical and science folks have come out against letting younger players into the NFL.
That's a choice for the player to make. Are they willing to risk it?

We let little girls do 20 to 40 hours of gymnastics a week, and they're crippled at 25.
Leisher wrote: Not to mention there's a large percentage of the shrink community who think it's irresponsible to give young adults this level of money without an education or other protections.
So the nanny state is OK? You shouldn't have joined the military cuz something bad could have happened to you.
Leisher wrote: Sure, they get a contract, but it's going to be for a minimum amount of money.
Again, that's their choice. Kids are making $8/hour at jobs, but the $2.7M they're guaranteed for being drafted isn't enough (that's Mr. Irrelevant's guaranteed $$)?
Leisher wrote: You're creating fake demand for a product nobody wants. These GMs HAVE TO follow trends or take chances because most of them don't have any career longevity. Plus, they usually get 2 shots max, if they're lucky, to be successful. It's like giving the reins of the economy to a gambling addict, telling him/her they MUST make a ridiculous profit in a calendar year, and then giving him/her the option of using the federal budget to play blackjack.
This argument is absurd. Markets work.
Leisher wrote: Fourth, the fans get hurt with shittier teams, players who get hurt more often, less knowledge of who anyone is (who follows high school football nationally?), and so on.
Is the NBA worse for having younger players? I can't see anyone arguing that validly.
Leisher wrote: Oh, and the kids can absolutely still go play in Canada or one of the other foreign leagues.
Additionally, NCAA and NAIA players are eligible to be selected after completing their senior season of eligibility.
Ooops, they cannot.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: That's a choice for the player to make. Are they willing to risk it?
Then why isn't it a choice for kids to smoke? How about motorcyclists to ride without helmets? Riding in a car without a seat belt? Yelling fire in a theater? And about a billion other examples?

Yay freedom! However, don't we, as a society, have an obligation to protect some people when we can?
TheCatt wrote: We let little girls do 20 to 40 hours of gymnastics a week, and they're crippled at 25.
And we should stop. Same with little kids throwing curveballs who blow out their arms before ever sniffing a pro contract.
TheCatt wrote: So the nanny state is OK? You shouldn't have joined the military cuz something bad could have happened to you.
[Insert meme of RDJ rolling his eyes]

It's funny you bring up the military because the whole point of all our training is to give us a better chance to survive. It wasn't just killing folks and breaking their toys. Safety was paramount.

Fine line between a nanny state and common sense stuff.
TheCatt wrote: Again, that's their choice. Kids are making $8/hour at jobs, but the $2.7M they're guaranteed for being drafted isn't enough (that's Mr. Irrelevant's guaranteed $$)?
And many make the wrong choices because they get bad advice, come from extreme poverty, and so on. Again, I'm pro free market, but I don't think we have the right consumers. And again, a discussion better placed into a different thread. Anyway, these kids will be bankrupt with medical bills, their hangers on will be gone, they'll be lacking an education, and then what? Our great free market gets to support them or as we've seen in some cases, innocent people get to get murdered by them.
TheCatt wrote: This argument is absurd. Markets work.
It's cute that you think they do. :D Markets 100% do not work. And again, this should be discussed elsewhere...

But let me clarify, while I do think the idea/concept of markets work, I do not think they currently work as intended.
TheCatt wrote: Is the NBA worse for having younger players? I can't see anyone arguing that validly.
Well, their ratings suck (pre-C-19) because fewer people are interested in their product. Attendance was down. Their total free market approach has created super teams that bore the living shit out of people and have turned off a sizable portion of their audience. Most of their small market teams have zero chance of winning a title, so the only contenders are the same handful of teams each year. Their commissioner has publicly admitted they have issues in all the areas I just said. And most of the high school kids going right to the league have been busts.

Most pro bball fans are college bball fans. Skip that level and you lose a percentage of fans who would follow a player from their preferred school. Thus, you lose national appeal for teams, and they really become more local. That's bad business.
TheCatt wrote: Ooops, they cannot.
Oops they absolutely can and have. WTF does NCAA and NAIA stuff have to do with anything? Seriously. You lost me there. Two of the Ball kids left in their junior year of high school and freshman/sophomore year of college to go play in Europe. That just happened within the last year.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Oops they absolutely can and have. WTF does NCAA and NAIA stuff have to do with anything? Seriously. You lost me there. Two of the Ball kids left in their junior year of high school and freshman/sophomore year of college to go play in Europe.
You said CFL, and this is the NFL (football) thread, not basketball.

Those were CFL draft requirements.
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Post by Leisher »

Ah! There are Euro leagues they can go play in or they can go to the IMG academy for a few years.

Point being, there are options.

The free market stuff is the more interesting debate to me, but this is the wrong thread for it. I truly am a free market person, but I think so many "incorrect" things are influencing it that it isn't working as intended.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Shitty options.

I'm a mostly free market person.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Shitty options.
I whole heardtedly agree, but they are options.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Leisher »

For our Tarheel fans:
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Eh, we'll see what happens...
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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