PGA

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Leisher
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Thought I posted this yesterday before leaving for golf and just discovered the tab...oh well. It seems just as legit, and I'm too lazy to read through it. Adding on latest comments on the end though.
Bullshit. Hitting a hard curve from a top MLB pitcher is still far more difficult. Playing cricket is more difficult.
Allow me to rephrase my argument because based on your statement above I realized we weren't arguing about the same thing.

Yes, it's FAR more difficult to hit a hard curve from a top MLB pitcher than hitting a golf ball. Ditto for cricket. You're talking about moving balls versus one standing still (And please stop talking about tees. Using them in an argument makes you sound ignorant. Only one shot in golf allows for the use of a tee. The majority of shots do not use tees.).

I could take a 5 year old and let him hit a golf ball, but he'd never hit the pitcher's curve. Right?

However...that's not what I'm arguing. Let me explain:
I'm not sure if I could hit a major league pitch one time in 50
If Gordon steps into the batter's box and swings 50 times at 50 pitches, how many does he make contact with? Let's say 1. Even if it's a foul tip, he made contact. Odds are he'd probably make contact a few more times and his odds would get better the longer he stood there because his mind would adjust to the speed of the ball and get used to it. That's without lessons or knowledge of proper stance, technique, etc.

Now, if Gordon steps up to a golf ball (And we'll put it on the tee for him. So despite him facing a major league pitcher up there, he's getting the easiest shot possible here.) and swings 50 times, how many times does he make contact? Let's say 49 of 50 because there's going to be one over swing whiff. Even if he tops it and it goes backwards (I've seen that happen twice and heard about another.) it counts as contact. This is without lessons or knowledge of proper stance, technique, etc.

So at baseball's best and golf's easiest, baseball is harder, right? Of course it is because the ball is just sitting there! The one thing you've left out of your argument, and I stupidly assumed was included in our argument is results.

So let's make that pitch throw Gordon marshmallows. How many of the 50 is he hitting now? 40? 45? They're not going to be foul tips either. Now he's got a chance to really go after some. At the very least he'll hit some singles.

And let's make that golf shot a bit harder. Now he's in the rough at Beth Page Black (4 feet deep) and 220 out from the green. How many times do you think he swings and gets it to the green? Zero and that's a conservative estimate. How many times does he simply advance the ball to a playable lie? We're talking about a shot that pros have difficulty making. Hell, they bitched their asses off about the rough there in the U.S. Open about a decade ago.

So now we took baseball's easiest and golf's worse, and you'd have to be a true fanatic to completely ignore facts and logic and claim baseball is harder in that scenario.

So we're now 1-1.

Just to sum up my argument, before I go into another example, I'm saying that hitting a golf ball and doing it well is the most difficult thing in all of sports. I know hitting a baseball is difficult at the highest levels, but I believe that once you face enough pitches at that speed, it gets easier. This is something that many great hitters have discussed in interviews. Any of us can experience the same phenomenon by simply going to a batting cage. Initially those balls are coming fast (phrasing), but once you get their speed down, it becomes a lot easier and the balls seem to move slower. I've experienced the same sensation in a race car where initially 200 MPH seemed insanely fast, but after the second lap I felt like I was driving on the expressway. It all slowed down as I got used to it. Meanwhile, the game of golf isn't just a bunch of shots off a tee in ideal conditions. Every shot is completely different from your lie, distance, weather, wind, where the hole is compared to your feet, where the ball is compared to your feet, the score (Do you need to be aggressive or conservative?), what club you're playing, and on and on and on. The physical swing in golf is the most difficult thing in sports to master, and it changes for every shot. That swing and all the factors of the stuff I listed, and didn't list in the interest of time, is why a lot of people, including athletes in other sports like baseball, believe golf is the most difficult sport mentally.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled argument...

Let's take the ideal result for each game: the home run versus the hole in one.

Odds of a professional baseball player hitting a home run: 1 in every 12 at bats.

Odds of a professional golfer hitting a hole in one: 1 in 2500

Granted, the area for a home run in huge, while the cup for a golf ball is tiny, however, that's the part of the point, and something baseball players agree with me on, hitting a good golf shot is harder than hitting a baseball well. In baseball, you can kinda, sorta steer your shot, but you're not dropping it into garbage cans. That's why Kevin Costner was so excited for the guy when he hit the bull! Guy wins a free steak!
Back when I used to dawdle at golf I'd sometimes accidentally drive a ball 250 yards (feet? I don't remember. whichever is the good one).
Yards and honestly that's not exceptional. You were a Marine and in pretty decent shape at one point in your life. Smacking a ball 250 is a good shot. Doing it consistently and straight is something even the best amateurs struggle with. Pros are 290-350. 250 is probably around the pro ladies. Most amateurs are between 190-250, but think they're hitting 300.

You'd find that now, with your age, things would be different. My dad will turn 70 this year and he was a scratch golfer who easily hit 250 or more on all his drives. Now I am 100 yards ahead of him on every drive. Age has slowed his swing WAY down and he has yet to get flexible shafts to compensate. (Older guys need more flex in the shaft to maintain distance.)
I've always seen baseball as a team sport, but in golf you are only competing against yourself... it is a game you can never win.
There is truth and bullshit in every part of that statement. Baseball is primarily an individual game. That's why folks talk so much about players there rather than teams. It's "I remember watching Dale Murphy" more than "I remember watching the Steelers in the 70s." Not saying it doesn't happen the other way, but the majority of conversations revolve around individuals. The elements of the game are mostly individual too. Typically every play involves one person, and maybe someone you're throwing too. Batting is a solitary activity. But, they ARE a team.

Golf has team events and even events where you each play the same shots, so there's that. But mostly, it IS an individual sport, however, Malcolm and Stranger are correct in that in events you are directly competing with other people. They know what the scores are and hear cheers when someone's doing well on another hole.

The psychology is like any other sport though with one exception, you DO also play yourself, and it's an impossible game to win like you said.

So let's say you and I were playing putt putt and we were tied going into the last hole. I go first and get a hole in one. Now you MUST sink your putt to force a playoff. You really think you're not directly competing against me or that there wouldn't be pressure? How about if millions of people are watching at home and hundreds surround you watching you as you putt? How about if the prize for winning is $1,000,000? I assure you, that putter will weigh 100 pounds in your mind.

"Now tell me Margaret, do you have the stones to sink a putt when you really have to?"
Psychology applies to golf as much as anywhere else.
Some would argue even more so, but definitely "as much as".
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Leisher
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

The 600-something ranked player in the world is done for the year.

That's not a joke. He really is ranked in the 600s.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Arnold Palmer passes away.

A golf legend whose name will live on forever thanks to his half lemonade, half iced tea concoction.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Re: PGA

Post by TheCatt »

It's not me, it's someone else.
Malcolm
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Re: PGA

Post by Malcolm »

Leisher wrote:A golf legend whose name will live on forever thanks to his half lemonade, half iced tea concoction.
Mixing non-alcoholic drinks: more of a sport than playing golf.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Malcolm wrote:
Leisher wrote:A golf legend whose name will live on forever thanks to his half lemonade, half iced tea concoction.
Mixing non-alcoholic drinks: more of a sport than playing golf.
Oh shit, grandpa woke up. Did you fall asleep watching baseball like the majority of people watching? The only sport that has a traditional stretch late in the game so people can try to shake off the boredom.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Re: PGA

Post by Malcolm »

The only sport that has a traditional stretch late in the game so people can try to shake off the boredom.
As opposed to golf, which openly courts boredom and wears it like a tux. Anyhow, the amount of energy most fans put into walking to the concession stand in between innings to get another round of watered-down domestic pisswater beers is more than most golfers put out during a match.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
TheCatt
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Re: PGA

Post by TheCatt »

I'll be honest, I always assumed an Arnold Palmer had alcohol in it. I mean, wtf is the point of sweet tea + lemonade? Figured there was a shot of vodka or whiskey in there.
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Malcolm
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Re: PGA

Post by Malcolm »

wtf is the point of sweet tea + lemonade?
It's as much excitement as golf can handle.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Malcolm wrote:
The only sport that has a traditional stretch late in the game so people can try to shake off the boredom.
As opposed to golf, which openly courts boredom and wears it like a tux. Anyhow, the amount of energy most fans put into walking to the concession stand in between innings to get another round of watered-down domestic pisswater beers is more than most golfers put out during a match.
That's weak sauce gramps. I used an actual baseball tradition to make a point. You're just spouting opinion. Also, the average golf fan covers 10x as much distance in a single round as a baseball player does in an entire game. The fans and golfers, literally, walk miles. So yeah, you lose on that front.
I'll be honest, I always assumed an Arnold Palmer had alcohol in it. I mean, wtf is the point of sweet tea + lemonade? Figured there was a shot of vodka or whiskey in there.
1. Why does it have to be sweet tea? Damn southern people put sugar in everything.
2. Do you know what a Jack Nicolaus is? It's like an Arnold Palmer only a little bit better.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Re: PGA

Post by Malcolm »

The fans and golfers, literally, walk miles.
"Walk." Because they literally cannot move any faster without their bones snapping like dry reeds. The caddies are the only ones doing real work.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Malcolm wrote:
The fans and golfers, literally, walk miles.
"Walk." Because they literally cannot move any faster without their bones snapping like dry reeds. The caddies are the only ones doing real work.
Because they don't need to run... You're not bringing the good stuff today. You must not be drunk.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Re: PGA

Post by Leisher »

Tiger does nothing but struggle on his latest comeback.

He's 41. Steroids, er, I mean the game of golf have taken a huge toll on his body. He's had knee surgery 3-4 times. Accuracy was never a strength. His power is gone. The young players blow past him and his ego makes him want to keep up, which results in bad shots. His mental game was never a strength. Jack was 44 when he won his last Masters.

Instead of a field of intimidated also-rans, he's now facing a field of kids who say "Tiger Who?"

It's over. I said it back when his then wife put a 3 iron upside his head. (6 years ago?)

He's a nostalgia piece now.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Malcolm
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PGA

Post by Malcolm »

Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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PGA

Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Malcolm
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PGA

Post by Malcolm »

I fail to see how that helps since even allergy meds have a "don't drive" warning.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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PGA

Post by Leisher »

I think it's a PR move, true or not.

He doesn't want people thinking he'd an alcoholic because that equals depression. So he's going with the prescription excuse, which would be more believable if it wasn't already the go to for celebs.

Police are backing his story.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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PGA

Post by TheCatt »

I believe him, but is pill addict better than alcoholic?
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Malcolm
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PGA

Post by Malcolm »

0.00 on alcohol tests so far.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Leisher
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PGA

Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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