Cops in America II

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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

I submit that all police in America II must be retired military, and the must have retired with a clean service record. Additionally the highest rank they will be allowed to hold in their career in the police force will be equivalent to whatever their highest rank in the military was.

It seems to me the worst cops I've met are the ones that talk like they wish they had been military but didn't have what it took to sign up for one reason or another. And the best cops I've met are the retired military that really understand what complete dogshit situations really look like and can keep their heads very well in the relatively simple situations cops have to deal with in comparison. They have perspective. And, generally, a much better understanding of the value of freedom.

It's not perfect, of course, but I think it would be an improvement.




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Post by GORDON »

This is considered to be a joke, but I honestly think all police should behave in this manner:

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You know damned well that guy would have been tazed ten times over by most other police, and then cuffed and arrested and would probably "accidentally fall down" when getting into the car.

Let me say that again: ALL COPS SHOULD BEHAVE IN THAT MANNER, AND NEVER LET THEIR TEMPER ENTER THE JOB.




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Post by Troy »

GORDON wrote:This is considered to be a joke, but I honestly think all police should behave in this manner:

<object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

You know damned well that guy would have been tazed ten times over by most other police, and then cuffed and arrested and would probably "accidentally fall down" when getting into the car.

Let me say that again: ALL COPS SHOULD BEHAVE IN THAT MANNER, AND NEVER LET THEIR TEMPER ENTER THE JOB.
If a guy throws a temper tanrum like that, anywhere, I'm worried he has a gun. Irrational people shouldn't be fucked with. He probably should have been tased.
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Post by GORDON »

Why, because he raised his voice and was pissed about getting fined for not hurting anyone?

100% disagree with you.
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Post by TPRJones »

Acting like an asshole is not yet a crime.
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Post by Troy »

GORDON wrote:Why, because he raised his voice and was pissed about getting fined for not hurting anyone?

100% disagree with you.

I'll just simplify my response with, cops have a hard enough job without people acting like that guy did.

I don't care what his personal life is like, it's not an excuse.




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Post by Cakedaddy »

I think he should be tased for being an asshole. The cop is doing his job. The guy was speeding and he's getting a ticket. The cop should be able to tase him so he shuts up and he can finish giving the ticket. Or at least be able to give the guy a ticket for wasting government resources as the cop had to stand there and not continue doing his job while retard man has a fit.

"You missed a piece."

I loved that.

Should I be able to knock on your door and when you answer, start having a fit, calling you names, etc? And you have to just stand there and listen to it for as long as I want to carry on. Of course not. You call the police and have me removed. The cop should be aloud to remove that asshole from his road.
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Post by GORDON »

You people are scary.
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Post by TPRJones »

Cakedaddy wrote:Should I be able to knock on your door and when you answer, start having a fit, calling you names, etc? And you have to just stand there and listen to it for as long as I want to carry on. Of course not. You call the police and have me removed. The cop should be aloud to remove that asshole from his road.
You've got your analogy backwards. If I were to knock on your door and when you answer you start having a fit, calling me names, etc, should I then call the police to subdue you?

The cop doesn't own the road. He did the knocking when he pulled him over. Admittedly this guy is still and asshole and I don't in any way defend his behavior. I'm sure he has a miserable life and it's well-deserved given his attitude. But being an asshole while sitting in your car is still not yet a crime.
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Post by Leisher »

Well, since I've been labeled as the "cop defender" on these forums I might as well weigh in...
I submit that all police in America II must be retired military, and the must have retired with a clean service record.


Agreed. I think this is a brilliant idea. (I'd actually be in favor of requiring military service to hold ANY government job.)

Additionally the highest rank they will be allowed to hold in their career in the police force will be equivalent to whatever their highest rank in the military was.


Disagree. However, I do believe that your outgoing rank should translate to the rank you start off at once you enter civilian life and become a cop.

You know damned well that guy would have been tazed ten times over by most other police, and then cuffed and arrested and would probably "accidentally fall down" when getting into the car.


Disagree. Not saying there aren't a lot of cops out there who wouldn't do exactly what you're saying, but it's not "most". The only things you ever hear about cops in the MSM are negative stories, and the only experiences people generally have with cops are negative (tickets, investigations, etc.). Not to mention that many incorrectly blame cops for stupid laws or moronic, unconstitutional things like traffic light cameras. Thus, their overriding opinion on cops is going to be negative.

That being said...

Let me say that again: ALL COPS SHOULD BEHAVE IN THAT MANNER, AND NEVER LET THEIR TEMPER ENTER THE JOB.


100% agree.

I actually watched this clip a long time ago with my dad, a cop, when it was on TV. His response was that the guy came close to getting into more trouble right away when he reached out and yanked at the cop's arm, but the cop did a very good job in not escalating the situation because he did absolutely NOTHING else that would have warranted an arrest. I remember him specifically pointing out that cops should never escalate a situation, but should provide a calm and neutral presence. He also stated that people have no idea how common this sort of treatment is, not only for tickets, but even when you are on a call helping someone, an abused spouse is a good example.

Yeah, this guy was an asshole, but to say he should be tazed is ridiculous. He wasn't hurting anyone, and wasn't a danger. He was simply venting his frustration about getting a ticket. The cop knew that and kept his cool. The reason this clip gets so much attention is because the guy was so overboard with his reaction.

The most amazing part to me? The cop actually gave him a break on his insurance being expired.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I think you are totally wrong reversing the analogy like that. The driver is not on his property while driving. He's on the state's, and the state hires cops to keep their property safe. So the driver went to the state's property and started harassing a state employee while he was doing his job.

Another example would be going down to your local court room and acting in an unsafe manner and then being an asshole when someone makes you stop.

If that guy built and owned that road and the cop went there and wrote him a ticket, then your analogy would be more accurate.

And honestly, if there are assholes like that in America II and we are going to be on THEIR side in this type of situation, I'm not sure I want to live there.
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Post by GORDON »

Cakedaddy wrote:I think you are totally wrong reversing the analogy like that. The driver is not on his property while driving. He's on the state's, and the state hires cops to keep their property safe. So the driver went to the state's property and started harassing a state employee while he was doing his job.

No, it is public property, and he is a member of the public. And the cop is a public servant. Cops shouldn't be treating speeders like dangerous criminals like some of you seem to think they should.

And I don't want anyone in America II who thinks cops should be allowed to assault you for being lippy or having a bad attitude. Heil hitler, y'all.




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Post by TPRJones »

Cakedaddy wrote:The driver is not on his property while driving. He's on the state's, and the state hires cops to keep their property safe. So the driver went to the state's property and started harassing a state employee while he was doing his job.
The state's property belongs to the people, and the state hires cops to keep people safe. Your way of expressing it is way too authoritarian for me to ever agree with. The state should only have power over the people when the people are in danger from outside forces or each other. It doesn't look in that video like anyone is in danger.

I do not consider simple speeding to be sufficiently dangerous. Now if he was clearly driving recklessly that would be a different matter.

The real problem with that video is the stupid laws being enforced and whined about in the first place. It should be illegal to make stupid laws. Although that may be problematic, as some people would consider that to be a stupid law itself...
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Speeding tickets being a stupid law or not can be debated in another thread. But, until that law is no longer a law, it's the cop's job to enforce it. And when enforcing said law, he should not have to be subjected to idiots like that. The cop didn't charge the vehicle, gun drawn, yelling for the driver to get out and go face down on the pavement. And I wouldn't support him doing that either. Assuming this was just your standard "Guy was driving over the speed limit" type of stop. The cop was simply walking back to the driver to do his job. I don't support the cop being an asshole, and I CERTAINLY don't think the driver should be allowed to be one either.

From the video, we could never judge if the driver had been a safety concern for others. We would have to see the video that lead to the ticket. However, as above, speeding is against the law right now. The cop was enforcing the law. He shouldn't have to put up with idiots like that. Lets debate the validity or need for laws in another thread. This one is about forcing cops to tolerate assholes, just because they are cops, or something.

I don't think cops should have to sit there and listen to that for simply enforcing the law, which is what his job is, and for which he is paid. It's apparent that we all agree we need cops (only good ones). So why should we allow people to treat them bad, just because. . .. . . . . why?

And lets say I was getting lippy with either of you. Talking all kinds of shit. You don't think, at some point, it would be reasonable for you to punch me in the mouth to shut me up? Mind you, this is an instance where you can't just walk away. Your job demands that you complete the task that I'm preventing you from completing while I have my mini self pity tantrum. Or, would you just stand there and listen to all I had to say until I was tired of hearing myself talk, like you are demanding the cop should do.

Do I think the cop should have hit him? No. That just escalates things. However, A quick zap of a taser and the guy makes some groaning noises and shuts down long enough for the cop to issue the ticket and get back to work (Or a puff of gas that calms you down if you are beating up a Carl's Jr food dispenser). And if not a taser, then another ticket for . . . obstructing a police officer while he's trying to perform his duty, or something. Granted, there's a LOT of room for abuse there. I'm just saying. I do NOT support forcing cops to be verbal punching bags just because they are enforcing a law you may not agree with, or feel shouldn't apply to you. There should be SOME form of recourse the cop can take. NO ONE should be forced to sit and listen to a retard like that.
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Post by Malcolm »

I submit that all police in America II must be retired military

Eh, I'll settle for them convincing me I can trust them to wield that much authority over people and not abuse the fuck out of it. There's more than one way to do that, especially if you design the training and rules correctly.

If a guy throws a temper tanrum like that, anywhere, I'm worried he has a gun ... He probably should have been tased.

I'm exceptionally glad you're not in law enforcement.

cops have a hard enough job without people acting like that guy did.

Sorry, I must've missed the part where police work became indentured servitude. If your job sucks, get a new one.

I think he should be tased for being an asshole. The cop is doing his job. The guy was speeding and he's getting a ticket. The cop should be able to tase him so he shuts up and he can finish giving the ticket. Or at least be able to give the guy a ticket for wasting government resources as the cop had to stand there and not continue doing his job while retard man has a fit.

Now I don't wanna get off on a rant here, but if your job involves legally harassing and fleecing people, then you should expect people to be pissed. Again, if that kind of driving is so fucking dangerous, why not throw them in jail for a day to make a point? Because it's easier to be a greedy, lazy prick, accept cash, pretend you made a difference, and pay lipservice to your "protect and serve" bullshit motto while you go out traffic patrolling when perfectly good murders, rapes, and thefts are unsolved. Yeah, bravo.

Should I be able to knock on your door and when you answer, start having a fit, calling you names, etc? And you have to just stand there and listen to it for as long as I want to carry on. Of course not. You call the police and have me removed. The cop should be aloud to remove that asshole from his road.

I own my house or at least have a legal right to be there and boot people off for trespassing. Cops DO NOT own the fucking road, nor does the state. My taxes pay for that fucking road and I paid umpteen trillion license/tag/insurance fees to be able to drive. Unless you're disrupting traffic or otherwise breaking the law, no cop gets to legally remove you from the road without at least inventing a bullshit reason.

if there are assholes like that in America II and we are going to be on THEIR side in this type of situation, I'm not sure I want to live there.

One man's asshole is another's champion.

I do not consider simple speeding to be sufficiently dangerous.

A-fucking-men. If you can drive like Al fucking Unser and not be a danger to anyone, go for it. But if you pull something stupid, the full consequences of your actions land on you. Driving quickly in and of itself isn't dangerous. Driving quickly and impeding the flow of traffic around you is.

The driver is not on his property while driving. He's on the state's, and the state hires cops to keep their property safe.

Again, cops or the state do not own the fucking road. The governor can't just put in a call one day and shut down the highway because he wants to ride his bike down the middle. They might hire folks to build and maintain it, but that's a damn far fucking cry from ownership.

Another example would be going down to your local court room and acting in an unsafe manner and then being an asshole when someone makes you stop.

Disrupting a courtroom is usually grounds for contempt of court or removal from the room. They don't get to do it just because it's "their" court, it's because they need to get shit done because court proceedings are so drawn out they take fucking forever to get done. And tazing a dude for being an ass about a traffic stop just so you can hasten to your next traffic stop doesn't qualify as "getting shit done." It qualifies you as a fucking retard that can't even do the menial task that's being asked without physically overpowering someone.

If that guy built and owned that road and the cop went there and wrote him a ticket, then your analogy would be more accurate.

If it had been his road and if he'd been doing something stupid (I dunno, like blocking an emergency vehicle from crossing it or something), then his ownership means jack and shit. He could've quarried the rocks himself and he'd still be arrested.
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Post by GORDON »

Here's a thought: make it a 2-way taser. If the situation is so serious that a citizen needs to be subdued, then the cop pulls the taser trigger... but the taser is also attached to the cop. Everybody gets the shit shocked out of them until a calm 3rd-party cop shows up to get a handle on things. Perhaps that would ensure tasers are only used when they are supposed to be, instead of being used in lieu of competence.



Edited By GORDON on 1307579086
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