Politician accountability

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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Assuming their is a representational republic in America II, I vote we make politicians accountable if they lie while making their "campaign promises."

Perhaps a legally binding "position statement" of 20 issues, and the politician is required to state his/her position on that issue in 15 words or less. If they ever, EVER vote on an issue that is contrary to their legally binding "campaign promise," they go to jail. And not that cushy jail, either. I'm talking about a state facility, with the crotch biters, in general population.

In other words, there are severe consequences for being a typical, lying politician.

I think that simple practice would go a long way to fixing problems inherent in a legislature. Can you imagine how much this would curtail lobbying, and Bills with hundreds of riders attached to it?
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Why do we need politicians at all? Let's try a live floating fully democratic Congress, where anyone that wants to show up and vote on whatever is going on can do so. We can leverage online technology to make it feasable.

Of course we'll need some people to run it, helping keep things on agenda and prevent insanity from taking over too much. But most of that can be automated, and those few people needed to do the job won't have authority to speak on topic except as much as any other regular citizen.

Or if you do want a traditional legislature, fine, but I don't like the specifics of your idea. Things do sometimes change for legitimate reasons.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Make the voting age 32, and I'd agree.

Otherwise, on a daily basis, we'd have new laws forcing the worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and other internet memes like that.

There would be a "Bow to Cthulu" day.

Star Wars Kid would be voted Emperor of the Planet.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

I am willing to accept your stipulation, but I doubt it's necessary.

Yes, people in groups are stupid. But people in really large groups are rarely able to agree on being stupid in the same way. The stupidity sort of cancels out if they have to vote together to get something done.

Acceptions usually revolve around indivduals with power beyond that of the average citizen (such as politicians) gaming the system for thier own benefit.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Make the voting age 32, and I'd agree.

First off, hell no. Chronological age is a crap indicator of your mental capacity to participate competently in gov't.

I vote we make politicians accountable if they lie while making their "campaign promises."

Leaders need to be free to alter their views on something if circumstances warrant. Sometimes shit just changes. A great idea yesterday can be a fucking awful idea today. The threat ought to be that the populous will boot them from office if they start doing 180s on their platforms. & I'm not talking in a couple years when they're up for reelection. If you fuck up big enough in office, there should be some process by which said fuck-ups can be removed & replaced in short order.

Of course we'll need some people to run it, helping keep things on agenda and prevent insanity from taking over too much.

That's going to be a Herculean task. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of direct democracy beyond a certain population size. If everyone decides to have an opinion, just listening to them all takes forever. Specialization of labour works for other jobs in society, why not running the country?

I'm definitely a fan of the idea that the standard politician has no more importance/rights/privileges/whatever than your normal citizen.
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Post by TheCatt »

First, I don't like the idea of a representational democracy.

Second, I don't like punishing free speech.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

TheCatt wrote:Second, I don't like punishing free speech.
I submit that anyone getting paid from public coffers should be held to stricter standards.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

GORDON wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Second, I don't like punishing free speech.
I submit that anyone getting paid from public coffers should be held to stricter standards.
If a politician is speaking on a political topic, it's not free speach. It's them talking about their job. The courts have already ruled that regular citizens can be fired for saying the wrong things at their workplace, because while on the job they don't have the same sorts of rights to free speach that they do in their private lives. Why should politicians be any different?

I don't like the jail time thing, though. Just remove them from office for it.
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Post by TPRJones »

If everyone decides to have an opinion, just listening to them all takes forever.

That's not a bug, that's a feature. If something is important enough to become law, it will also be important enough to cut through the madness of a direct democracy. If it can't cut through that madness, then it's not important enough to be codified into law.

The ideal legislature only passes a single law every few years, and removes several old laws from the books every year. The shit we have now of every politician wanting to make their own new bills all the time and never repeal anything is completely ass-backwards.




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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

TPRJones wrote:If something is important enough to become law, it will also be important enough to cut through the madness of a direct democracy. If it can't cut through that madness, then it's not important enough to be codified into law.
What I know of Greek history doesn't provide me w\ too many guarantees that just because something's insanely important, it'll be addressed in a timely manner.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Second, I don't like punishing free speech.
I submit that anyone getting paid from public coffers should be held to stricter standards.
Then don't pay them. And make sure there's little/no government budget, no one will even want to run for office.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

TheCatt wrote:
GORDON wrote:
TheCatt wrote:Second, I don't like punishing free speech.
I submit that anyone getting paid from public coffers should be held to stricter standards.
Then don't pay them. And make sure there's little/no government budget, no one will even want to run for office.
Hmmm.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Dunno about "don't pay", but they shouldn't make the huge amounts of cash they do (granted, some or a lot of that comes from kickbacks or illegal things).
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Malcolm wrote:Dunno about "don't pay", but they shouldn't make the huge amounts of cash they do (granted, some or a lot of that comes from kickbacks or illegal things).
That's what I meant by the legally binding position statement eliminating all lobbying/bribes.

No point in bribing a guy who will go to prison if he votes against his position.

As far as "things change", well, 2 year term limit, then he can have a new position statement. If his constituents still want to reelect him with his new positions, so be it.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

If you must pay them, then take a poll of businesses and what their employees are paid. All politicans get paid the same hourly salary as the average bottom 10% of wage earners in the workforce.

If they want to get paid more, they find ways to move the economy along and get more for the average low-paid worker, and they get a raise.
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DoctorChaos
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Post by DoctorChaos »

Why not have government be a volunteer organization? This should be a part time gig. That way they can't get into too much trouble. Granted we'll need full time government bodies like police and military to keep the order but the rest could/should not be a full time effort. By making it part time those involved should prioritize what gets done. Maybe someone gets smart and repeals some laws. Oh, and volunteering is mandatory like jury duty only no douche bags can throw you out because of what you believe. It's worrysome on an individual basis but I think a group can balance out the few crazies.
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