Socialism

For stuff that is general.
Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TheCatt
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WSJ Article on effectiveness of social programs by who they help:
The U.S. spends trillions every year on a social safety net for people in all steps of life, from childhood to retirement.

A new study from two Harvard University economists, Nathaniel Hendren and Ben Sprung-Keyser, examines 133 U.S. policy changes over the past half-century, including the creation of Medicare, Medicaid expansions, the introduction of food stamps, as well as dozens of state and local programs.

Their paper, released Monday, identifies which policies ultimately made the government money, generally in the form of beneficiaries who needed less assistance over time or who became more productive and paid more taxes.

Say you have $1 to give to a social policy. You could strengthen the safety net for adults—say, boosting health insurance, unemployment benefits and disability insurance. Or you could give it to programs for low-income children.

Adults use benefits that end up costing additional money—an extra 60 cents or so on top of the $1 you spent. But health care and education for kids often reduces dependence on aid and lifts earnings. Over time, you get back your $1—plus about 47 cents.

This return on investment is, of course, just one measure of effectiveness. But as a purely fiscal matter, the two scholars found programs geared toward bettering the lives of adults rarely paid for themselves. They ultimately reduced a person’s earnings, or caused them to use more government-funded services. But investing in low-income children often lifted their earnings over time and decreased their dependence on public aid.

“The results show there’s a potential to get really high returns when you’re focusing on kids,” said Mr. Hendren, a Harvard economics professor. The research is part of Opportunity Insights, a nonpartisan project that he and economists Raj Chetty and John Friedman launched last year to improve economic mobility.

These conclusions, coming as the nation gears up for the 2020 presidential campaign, could help determine which policies gain traction. Democrats have backed expanding Medicare to all Americans, making college tuition-free and subsidizing child care. President Trump has revived calls to repeal the Obama health law that expanded Medicaid.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

I like this study because it reinforces what I believe :) Give kids a strong start: education, healthcare, etc.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

I agree. Kids are where the money should go. That's an investment in the future.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

TheCatt wrote: I like this study because it reinforces what I believe :) Give kids a strong start: education, healthcare, etc.
And trim the dead branches, stop supporting them, before they topple the entire tree.

Also, "Money to help with health insurance" is a ginormous money hole that doesn't need to exist at all.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

GORDON wrote: And trim the dead branches, stop supporting them, before they topple the entire tree.
Seconded.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by GORDON »

"Trillions spent on social programs." Yet nothing is getting fixed. Sigh.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Should people be able to lose everything they own because they get cancer or other diseases?
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Post by GORDON »

Case by case basis. Let's look at all their life decisions that led up to their not having insurance, when they incurred big medical bills.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: Case by case basis. Let's look at all their life decisions that led up to their not having insurance, when they incurred big medical bills.
The company they worked for went out of business the month before the cancer diagnosis and they hadn't found a new job yet.
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Post by GORDON »

Good enough. The neighbors will pay for it.

By force, if needs be.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Should people be able to lose everything they own because they get cancer or other diseases?
Obviously, it would be great if they didn't. However, there's way, way too many factors in play here other than "Fix it by throwing money at it."

Socialize health care and they won't have to worry about going broke chasing potential options.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Vince
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Post by Vince »

How many people actually lose everything getting treatment? I've had so much family (by blood and in-laws) that worked in the medical field I could pretty much open a hospital with everyone I know. I've never seen a case where a hospital was unwilling to work with someone in financial distress. If you don't have the means and can only pay $50 a month, then they'll take that until you die of old age.

The wife is now working in admissions and does precertifications on insurance for procedures. People will have procedures scheduled and she'll call them to tell them what their out-of-pocket will be. Often she's confronted with "I can't pay that much." And the answer is always, "if you can pay something on it when you come, we can work with you."
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Vince wrote: The wife is now working in admissions and does precertifications on insurance for procedures. People will have procedures scheduled and she'll call them to tell them what their out-of-pocket will be. Often she's confronted with "I can't pay that much." And the answer is always, "if you can pay something on it when you come, we can work with you."
So... they take everything they can from the person?
Vince wrote: How many people actually lose everything getting treatment?
One study from 2013 estimates ~1.7M / year. Obama estimated 1M/yr in his early 2009 inauguration (so pre-Great Recession impacts).
Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health.

"With an average American family bringing home $50,000 in income, a high medical bill and a high-deductible insurance plan can quickly become something they are unable to pay," LaMontagne said. "If you have an out-of-pocket maximum of $5,000 or $10,000, that's really tough," he said.
MIT economist estimates it takes 20 years of nothing going wrong to escape poverty.
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Post by GORDON »

As soon as universal health care is a thing we can start denying people for their habits, like vaping and smoking and dangerous hobbies like scuba diving. And deciding to have expensive elective childbirth.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: As soon as universal health care is a thing we can start denying people for their habits, like vaping and smoking and dangerous hobbies like scuba diving. And deciding to have expensive elective childbirth.
I'm still pro-sugar tax.

Treat and Reduce Obesity Act
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

TheCatt wrote:
Vince wrote: The wife is now working in admissions and does precertifications on insurance for procedures. People will have procedures scheduled and she'll call them to tell them what their out-of-pocket will be. Often she's confronted with "I can't pay that much." And the answer is always, "if you can pay something on it when you come, we can work with you."
So... they take everything they can from the person?
See, this is why no one trusts progressives. Somehow "pay something" became "sell everything and pay us all of it".
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Vince
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Post by Vince »

GORDON wrote: As soon as universal health care is a thing we can start denying people for their habits, like vaping and smoking and dangerous hobbies like scuba diving. And deciding to have expensive elective childbirth.
It's always about power and control.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Vince wrote: See, this is why no one trusts progressives. Somehow "pay something" became "sell everything and pay us all of it".
I see it every single day. Meanwhile, hospitals squeeze all the blood they can from those stones.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

TheCatt wrote:
Vince wrote: See, this is why no one trusts progressives. Somehow "pay something" became "sell everything and pay us all of it".
I see it every single day. Meanwhile, hospitals squeeze all the blood they can from those stones.
You work in the medical field?
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
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