Electric Car Thread

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Electric Car Thread

Postby TheCatt » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:51 pm

That's some bullshit. Electric cars should pay something, but not $200
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Postby GORDON » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:57 pm

That's going to cost me an extra 2¢ per mile, when I drive approx 12,000 miles per year.

It costs me about $3 per normal commuting day to charge up, which equates to about 70 miles per equivalent gallon of gasoline, at current gas prices. This new tax will bring my cost efficiency down to approximately $4.20 per commuting day... $3 in electricity, $1.40 in state fees. SO I'm down to maybe 50 miles per equivalent gallon of gas? They've made green cars less desirable. Nice job.

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Postby TheCatt » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:10 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post That's going to cost me an extra 2¢ per mile, when I drive approx 12,000 miles per year.

It costs me about $3 per normal commuting day to charge up, which equates to about 70 miles per equivalent gallon of gasoline, at current gas prices. This new tax will bring my cost efficiency down to approximately $4.20 per commuting day... $3 in electricity, $1.40 in state fees. SO I'm down to maybe 50 miles per equivalent gallon of gas? They've made green cars less desirable. Nice job.

I'm voting against Gov. Dewine next time.

Republicans suck.
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Electric Car Thread

Postby Cakedaddy » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:38 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post That's some bullshit. Electric cars should pay something, but not $200


I think that still seems low. I bet I pay considerably more than that in gas tax driving a car about the same size.

I would agree with a proposal that you can submit mileage reports showing low use, thus lowering the bill. Plus, the government already helped people buy those cars with tax incentives. They are artificially cheap to drive due to government subsidies which I don't agree with.

Not to mention, the federal gas taxes they are avoiding as well.

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Postby GORDON » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:39 pm

Wonder if they'll give me a rebate on the state taxes I pay for electricity.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:49 pm

Good question. Wonder if they took that into consideration when they came up with the low $200 per year figure. Again, you are a below average driver (in soooo many ways), so your tax probably shouldn't be $200 (my googling came up with $177). But an average driver would be paying over $200. Heavy drivers, significantly more (obviously).

Oh ya, there's the government subsidized free charging stations all over town too.

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Postby GORDON » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:52 pm

USA subsidies to oil producers are in the ballpark of $20 billion per year. Remove those and electric cars are an even better option.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:54 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post USA subsidies to oil producers are in the ballpark of $20 billion per year.


Ya, but what percent of that is for coal and natural gas to make your electricity?

According to a 2015 estimate by the Obama administration, the US oil industry benefited from subsidies of about $4.6 billion per year.


Apparently, WAY more.

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Postby GORDON » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:57 pm

my numbers i looked up were way higher.

Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually.


https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-s ... etal-costs
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Postby Leisher » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:59 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post
GORDON wrote:Source of the post That's going to cost me an extra 2¢ per mile, when I drive approx 12,000 miles per year.

It costs me about $3 per normal commuting day to charge up, which equates to about 70 miles per equivalent gallon of gasoline, at current gas prices. This new tax will bring my cost efficiency down to approximately $4.20 per commuting day... $3 in electricity, $1.40 in state fees. SO I'm down to maybe 50 miles per equivalent gallon of gas? They've made green cars less desirable. Nice job.

I'm voting against Gov. Dewine next time.

Republicans suck.


Yes they do, but how is this different from any of the insane taxes Dems come up with?
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Postby Cakedaddy » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:05 pm

GORDON wrote:Source of the post my numbers i looked up were way higher.

Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually.


https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-s ... etal-costs


I saw that same one and figured that's where your 20 billion came from. But it specifically lumps natural gas and oil together as part of the 80%. My figure pulls oil out by itself.

Next you'll point out that only 35% of natural gas is used for electricity.

Etc, etc. But surely you see that electric vehicles get a lot of government money, no?

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Postby TheCatt » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:12 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post would agree with a proposal that you can submit mileage reports showing low use, thus lowering the bill.

More bureaucracy!
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Postby GORDON » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:28 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post
GORDON wrote:Source of the post my numbers i looked up were way higher.

Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually.


https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-s ... etal-costs


I saw that same one and figured that's where your 20 billion came from. But it specifically lumps natural gas and oil together as part of the 80%. My figure pulls oil out by itself.

Next you'll point out that only 35% of natural gas is used for electricity.

Etc, etc. But surely you see that electric vehicles get a lot of government money, no?


I think I heard that some states have tax incentives, but I didn't see any of them because I bought used. I can't speak to it anecdotally.

EV is absolutely the future. I don't think it's a bad thing to offer incentives to the early adopters in the difficult, early years, to ease the way for the rest of you when the time comes.
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Postby Leisher » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:13 am

GORDON wrote:Source of the post EV is absolutely the future.


That's bullshit. I saw a documentary where a guy was putting trash into his car as fuel. It even flew!
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Postby TheCatt » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:02 am

I'm generally in favor of the government promoting various technologies. It doesn't always work out, but that's science.

The "antitax" Republicans want to stick it too EVs cuz those aren't their voters.
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Postby Leisher » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:10 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post The "antitax" Republicans want to stick it too EVs cuz those aren't their voters.


I agree, but again, please explain all the Democrat taxes. For example, I guess their voters don't use PCs?
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Postby TheCatt » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:03 pm

Leisher wrote:Source of the post
TheCatt wrote:Source of the post The "antitax" Republicans want to stick it too EVs cuz those aren't their voters.


I agree, but again, please explain all the Democrat taxes. For example, I guess their voters don't use PCs?

Democrats have never said they are anti-tax. Or anti-government regulation.
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Postby Leisher » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:19 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post
Leisher wrote:Source of the post
TheCatt wrote:Source of the post The "antitax" Republicans want to stick it too EVs cuz those aren't their voters.


I agree, but again, please explain all the Democrat taxes. For example, I guess their voters don't use PCs?

Democrats have never said they are anti-tax. Or anti-government regulation.


Fair point.
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Postby Cakedaddy » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:38 pm

TheCatt wrote:Source of the post The "antitax" Republicans want to stick it too EVs cuz those aren't their voters.


And I'm ok with that. All the taxes the other side makes up for me, they deserve a few.


GORDON wrote:Source of the post EV is absolutely the future.


I equate EV with environmentalists in a way. They can show the 'science' that says EV is better, blah, blah, blah, but I'm not sure I buy it. What's happening to all these batteries that are ending up in landfills? What? They aren't supposed to go there. They are recycled? I think you'll find them next to all the CFL bulbs that were supposed to last 20 years and not end up in landfills too. You'll find PCs and other electronics in the same area. What's the impact of making the batteries? Etc. Sure, it may end up being the future, for now. But should it be? Just because the hippies say it should be?

I don't mind the government funding research. I LOVE NASA. But to be subsidizing an industry because they decided that's what we should be driving is bullshit. The lobbyists won. How many battery companies that the government funded are now gone/bankrupt? It's a scam and I don't like paying for it.

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Postby TheCatt » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:11 pm

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post How many battery companies that the government funded are now gone/bankrupt? It's a scam and I don't like paying for it.

This is a terrible take. Failure happens. in Science, in Markets, etc.

Cakedaddy wrote:Source of the post What's happening to all these batteries that are ending up in landfills?

Tesla recycles its batteries. What % is recovered, don't know.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... oblem.html states 80% recycling is already possible.
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