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Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 21
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2014,07:50  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Troy @ Dec. 03 2014,09:10)
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Fuck the haters, this is like Star Trek: Into Darkness with the same bad guy and same director right?

It's not going to suck. It will probably be awesome.

Eh... the Star Trek reboot was such a convoluted mess in the first movie that I've never watched the second.  Horribly dumbed down to a simple action shoot-em-up.  Which is fine if that's what you want.

One of the things I never understood was how Lucas was getting slammed on the trade treaty stuff in Ep. 1.  It was clumsy in how it was put forward, but the economy is almost always at the center of government takeovers.  As usual with Lucas, the vision was fine.  The execution sucked.

My understanding is as far as Disney is concerned, the movies and I think the animated Clone Wars are canon, but all the books are not (any more).
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2014,08:04 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Vince @ Dec. 03 2014,09:50)
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Eh... the Star Trek reboot was such a convoluted mess in the first movie that I've never watched the second.  Horribly dumbed down to a simple action shoot-em-up.

I strongly disagree with your premise.  The Star Trek reboot is the most subtle subversion of an existing intellectual property that has ever been made.  It's quite possibly entirely on accident, but if it is on purpose then it borders or remarkable genius.  I explained in detail in a post in the #2 spoiler thread, here.

I doubt his Star Wars reboot will be quite so ingenuous (accidentally or on purpose), but it's bound to be good.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2014,09:02 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TPRJones @ Dec. 03 2014,10:04)
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I strongly disagree with your premise.  The Star Trek reboot is the most subtle subversion of an existing intellectual property that has ever been made.  It's quite possibly entirely on accident, but if it is on purpose then it borders or remarkable genius.

I think it was both intentional and unintentional.  I think this was a "I'm doing it my way, so screw you".  For the life of me I can think of no creative reason to destroy Vulcan in that movie.  I really think the only reason Abrams did that was so people wouldn't expect Vulcans in the reboot and he wouldn't be either confined by established canon (the time split would not erase thousands of years of their culture) or having to listen to the bitching from fans when he didn't stick to established canon.  Plus he got to turn an interesting character (Spock) into a more human character rather than a more Vulcan character.  On a ship full of humans, that came across to me more like someone who didn't want to have to work on developing (or in this case dealing with an existing) alien personality.  Abrams made a lot of changes in the first movie which all seemed to point to his not wanting to let thinking get in the way of his creativity.  Look at the way the crew ended up on the ship as her crew.  Something a real military would have resolved at the first opportunity.

One thing I came to realize from Lost was that people invested a lot of time end energy and emotion into that series and Abrams ended up getting a lot of credit for being a lot smarter than he's evidenced himself to be.  He's really good at dangling threads and pulling you in, but he doesn't seem to be able to weave the threads into anything meaningful.

In some ways he reminds me of Kubrick except not as good.  I was amazed for years after having watched 2001 thinking that I was missing something.  I always felt like all the pieces were there and Kubrick got me to the end and showed me the "reveal" and was like "ta-da!"  and I'm feeling like I'm not smart enough to put the pieces together to get it.  Abrams reminds me a lot of Kubrick in his style of presenting all these threads, but you get to the end and there's no reveal and most of the threads didn't mean anything or go anywhere.

Don't get me wrong, I like a little mystery in my stories.  Everything doesn't have to be explained.  But often Abrams seems to add stuff to a story because in the moment it's interesting but with no vision of the ending.

Sorry, I'm doing a streaming consciousness thing here... His stories seem to end abruptly and with little satisfaction to the story. He weaves a good first act.  The second act is a decent vehicle for keeping interest for elements in the first act alive, and then by the third act he's looking for a way to wrap things up without ever having given it any thought while he was actually writing the first two acts.

I think someone can pick up an established property and do it their way and still be respectful of the original.  I think this latest reboot of the Planet of The Apes is a great example.  I think it takes a lot of work and a lot of love for the original to be able to pull that off.  I don't think Abrams has that for Star Trek.  We'll have to see about Star Wars, but from the first teaser, I don't feel any of the magic that made me want to see the Lucasarts films.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2014,10:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh, no, Abrams admitted from the start that he had never even watched Star Trek before he was asked to be director of the reboot.  He said he was always a Star Wars nerd.  Pissed off a lot of fans when he said that and it explains many of this alterations.

That's part of what I liked about it, though.  Roddenberry's utopian future needed a good dismantling, as it's always been kind of dumb IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2014,10:35 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TPRJones @ Dec. 03 2014,12:24)
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That's part of what I liked about it, though.  Roddenberry's utopian future needed a good dismantling, as it's always been kind of dumb IMO.

I don't disagree with this part.  Part of the reason I stopped watching TNG (though I didn't realize it at the time) was that Roddenberry wouldn't allow ANY friction or disagreement among the crew.  That was part of what made the original so good.  It was Bones at one end and Spock at the other and Kirk being the bridge sometimes leaning more one way, sometimes the other.  The interaction of the different personalities was what made the series.  That was the heart of it, I think.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 11 2014,09:34 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This seems appropriate.








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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2014,14:27 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A scene from the new movie...








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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,11:35 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lucas gives new Star Wars flick a ringing endorsement.
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The [ideas] that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,12:05 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And that means since Disney bought his horrible ideas, he can never let us know what they were.

Keep that in mind next time you think to bash Disney.  They took one for the team.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,12:07 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Malcolm @ Jan. 21 2015,14:35)
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Lucas gives new Star Wars flick a ringing endorsement.
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The [ideas] that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote.

YES!

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,12:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Keep that in mind next time you think to bash Disney.  They took one for the team.

We'll see what they do with the franchise.  Can they make it worse than George?  Probably not.  Can they make it different but just as bad in a new way?  Oh yeah.  Everything Disney has distinct vibe emanating from it.  It doesn't matter how many layers of "cool" you wrap it in, it simply falls flat.


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Diogenes of Sinope:

"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."

"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."

Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:

"Better dead than smeg."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,16:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GORDON @ Jan. 21 2015,14:05)
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And that means since Disney bought his horrible ideas, he can never let us know what they were.

Keep that in mind next time you think to bash Disney.  They took one for the team.

Eh...  Disney is fully capable of their very own horrible ideas.  Go back and look at what they were doing with Toy Story before Steve Jobs threatened to pull the plug on it unless they returned full control back over to Pixar.  They ended up shit canning half a movie's worth of recorded dialog before going back to the original story line.  At one point Tom Hanks looked up from the mic during one recording session and said,  "Okay, this Woody character is kind of a dick."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 21 2015,16:42 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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They took one for the team.

Taking one for the team would've been buying it and handing it over to someone like this with few to no strings attached.  They bought it for themselves to earn cash.  I'm not deluding myself into thinking art or creativity has any place in the equation.  It invites acquiescence to this



or this



Edited by Malcolm on Jan. 21 2015,16:44

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"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 16 2015,11:33 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

New teaser trailer.  Very not bad.


       
       
       
       


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 16 2015,12:26 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That was clearly made by someone that understands more obscure movie-making concepts, like character and plot.

I am now officially excited.

Even old Han looks like it might work out.


Edited by TPRJones on Apr. 16 2015,12:28

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 16 2015,14:18 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 16 2015,14:30 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, I know.

But this time there's no Lucas involved.  Right?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 16 2015,14:40 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As I've said from the beginning, there is absolutely nowhere for this franchise to go but up, and killing Lucas was the smartest move they could have made.

Edited by GORDON on Apr. 16 2015,14:40

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 17 2015,07:16 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The distorted Darth Vader mask look a LOT like Arcane in hell in the Swamp Thing comics during the Moore stint back in the late 80's.

And I found it humorous that the x-wing scene over the water started looking more like the spoof from the first trailer "If Lucas had made SW7" trailer.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 17 2015,07:30 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I made that trashed Star Destroyer my wallpaper.

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