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| Post Number: 41
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Leisher 
Top 3%, yo.
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Posted on: Mar. 09 2012,08:16 |
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Indeed. She got her birthday shag, I'm taking her to lunch, then she's going shopping while I take the kids home to nap (while I finish off Bioshock 2). I'll also help her out tonight when Jillian has some girls over for pizza and play. Then I'm leaving her to watch her stories while we crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and enjoy the lamentations of their women.
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| Post Number: 42
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| Post Number: 43
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
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Posted on: Mar. 09 2012,12:32 |
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Correct.
I don't want to sleep with her. I'm married to her. That's gross.
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| Post Number: 44
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| Post Number: 45
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| Post Number: 46
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Cakedaddy
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Posted on: Mar. 09 2012,14:52 |
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I will be on later too. I'm working.
Was trying to create a funny group of quotes leading to me telling you you're welcome for giving your wife the shag, but it wasn't going to be very funny so I abandoned it. So, just know that I tried, but got lazy halfway through.
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| Post Number: 47
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Cakedaddy
Group: "Members"
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Posted on: Mar. 09 2012,23:50 |
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As far as draft mode. Â Gordon said he didn't like it because we weren't doing well in it. Â I said that it was because we were playing like shit. Â Our team builds aren't that different in the draft games than it is in regular. Â Our jungler was 0/3/0 and Leisher can't hold top and is BEGGING for a gank that just won't come. Â Bottom for both teams was farming and leveling well. Â Except, when team fights/roaming started, they did a WAY better job of it. Â I fell behind in levels because I kept anticipating things wrong. Â Gordon seemed like he was playing Ryze like he was Singed and was WAY too close to the front lines. Â I don't think any of that had anything to do with draft mode. Â We played like ass.
However, it did point out one major weakness. Â Some of us are WAY out of practice on our secondary champs. Â We've been playing for 500 instead of building a team. Â I said tonight that I think I am as good at Ashe, Noc and Maokai as I'm going to be. Â I'm not claiming expert. Â I'm saying that I can play all of them as good as I possibly can. Â I'm not going to lose some Noc effectiveness because it's been a while since I've played him. Â Brand and Fiddle. . . I have a TON of room for improvement on them.
So, I guess we have to decide, are we chasing 500, or are we building a competitive team?
Ronnie says we have to pick a role and master it. Â He's going to be the jungler, I would be the tank, Leisher would carry, etc. Â Then, we only play characters that fit in that role. Â I disagree because we aren't always on at the same time. Â When he's not around, I jungle, etc. Â Plus, although I like to be competitive, I also consider myself a casual player and don't want this to be my job. Â I like playing different characters and roles. Â But, if the team decides we should be role specific, I'm all for it. Â But, I would also request that the team picks your role instead of you. Â Ronnie's not the best jungler. Â He has his games. . . but more often than not, he's just adequate. Â He jungles about as good as I Brand. Â Very inconsistent. Â Not doing a good job, but better than having an AFK. Â I have no idea where you guys would put me. Â I think I play Noc WAY better than Ashe, but you guys are always asking for Ashe. Â I think I do pretty good as Maokai, but Leisher has implied he's seen better. . . Â So, I have no idea where you'd put me.
Anyways, that's my summary of this evening.
Edited by GORDON on Mar. 20 2012,18:12
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| Post Number: 48
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,09:46 |
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QUOTE On Facebook she wrote "Thanks everyone! I had a yummy lunch with (Leisher) and the twins and then went shopping all by myself!"
I was soooo tempted to comment, "So I heard you got a birthday shag."
That would have been so funny.
I would have laughed. She might not have. Chicks have no sense of humor.
QUOTE As far as draft mode. Â Gordon said he didn't like it because we weren't doing well in it. Â I said that it was because we were playing like shit.
Last night I also said we need to get out of draft mode. I believe it's both a combination of no teamwork, and people not being familiar with their other champs.
QUOTE However, it did point out one major weakness. Â Some of us are WAY out of practice on our secondary champs. Â We've been playing for 500 instead of building a team.
Agreed, and some of us don't even know who our "5" are... I'm one of them.
Anyway, I think we can address all this stuff, but we need to do it wisely. More on that in a minute.
QUOTE Ronnie says we have to pick a role and master it. Â He's going to be the jungler, I would be the tank, Leisher would carry, etc. Â Then, we only play characters that fit in that role. Â I disagree because we aren't always on at the same time. Â When he's not around, I jungle, etc. Â Plus, although I like to be competitive, I also consider myself a casual player and don't want this to be my job. Â I like playing different characters and roles. Â But, if the team decides we should be role specific, I'm all for it. Â But, I would also request that the team picks your role instead of you. Â Â He has his games. . . but more often than not, he's just adequate. Â He jungles about as good as I Brand. Â Very inconsistent. Â Not doing a good job, but better than having an AFK. Â I have no idea where you guys would put me. Â I think I play Noc WAY better than Ashe, but you guys are always asking for Ashe. Â I think I do pretty good as Maokai, but Leisher has implied he's seen better. . . Â So, I have no idea where you'd put me.
I think Ronnie has a point. Last night I moved from AD Carry to Tank, and suffered for it. Â I tried to aggressively push my lane, I don't think I led out far enough in team fights. Had I been playing another AD Carry or even Teemo, it would have been a far different experience. My gameplay could have remained the same.
However, none of us want to be shoehorned into a category. I love AD Carry, but sometimes it's fun to move into another role. (Although, if you guys wanted me to, I'd do it. I could easily make my five: MF, Trynd, Graves, Wukong, and Fiora.) What category does Singed fall into? He's a whole different playstyle. Scooty would never fall into one category. Cake's characters are AD, tanks, and AP. I'd only go this route if everybody said let's do it.
And I didn't say I've seen better Maokai, I said I wasn't nuts about the character. I think other tanks have much better "circles" like Amumu. You play Maokai well.
Anyway, I think we should move to normal games, most of us stick with what we know while one...maybe two...do something different. Make that our status quo for a while, then change it up again. Â We go for wins, we work on teamwork, we learn new champs, and most importantly, we have fun.
Plus, next time we enter draft mode, we need more than one of us to own critical champs. Singed needs to be grabbed early so the opponents don't take him. In that example, Gordon would also need to own Miss Fortune, if say, I took Singed for him.
Edited by GORDON on Mar. 20 2012,18:13
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| Post Number: 49
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GORDON
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,11:06 |
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I started the games last night very tired, and sick, so a lot of my late night, barely suppressed rage comes from that.
1. Â As far as being out of practice with Ryze, the only problem I really had was not being used to how slow he is. Â Singed is one of the fastest on the map, Ryze is one of the slowest, and movement calculations are a pretty unconscious thing and it is hard retraining your mind when you are used to moving X+5 and now you are just moving X. Â I was getting caught in situations that I never thought twice about, as Singed.
2. Â I wasn't pushing out like I do with Singed. Â Early game in mid, I was kicking Fizz's ass out of the lane, over and over. Â And four times, when I made a big push and went for the kill - every single time - the gank comes out of the weeds and I die.
3. Â As I said, I was kicking ass early mid, and making money, and at that time was buying wards (and every time I got ganked, the gank came from the spot where I didn't have a ward. Â They got very lucky in that aspect.). Â Which takes me to the biggest problem I personally had that game:
4. Â I was getting shut out of all money mid and late game. Â I know we have discussed this before, and I know that everyone else has an "every man for himself" mentality about it, but every. single. time. I went into a lane or spawn to hit a group of minions, or a monster spawn, every. single. time. there was suddenly 1-3 other people there with me, getting every. single. one. of the last hits, and taking all the money. Â I made it to level 18 and I had exactly 3 completed items. Â I was underpowered and ineffective and it made for a 4v5 game where it only took Fizz's ult to kill me from full health. Â
5. Â I mentioned I wasn't liking the elimination rounds because we had gotten stomped twice, and it feels to me like we are playing against a higher tier of player in the elimination matches. Â They play a lot better, it seems to me. Â I was hoping for a regular 5v5 match that we could get in and stomp some non-matched people and maybe get our groove back, but then I was told we sucked and I felt it was just best to get off voice at that point before I started ranting about how my team had fucked me that last game. Â But now I am rested and the heat is gone and if y'all take nothing else from this post, it is that I still feel strongly that "every man for himself" is a horrible, horrible plan if you have a teammate that has gotten behind in farming. Â I know I, personally, am ALWAYS trying to get our teammates who have fallen behind in levels caught up. Â Y'all KNOW I am constantly saying, "He is behind, let him get these XPs solo," so you know I am not just saying this for ME ME ME. Â When a teammate is behind, it hurts the entire team, and another 250 gold and X XP's goes a lot farther for a level 14 than it does for a level 18.
Y'all know what a properly leveled Ryze looks like. Â I could have been doing, literally, twice as much damage with just a little support, resulting in a lot more kills of peeps who just barely got away, but I was shut out.
Edited by GORDON on Mar. 20 2012,18:15
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| Post Number: 50
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GORDON
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,11:15 |
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And what is the deal with everyone getting distracted by "getting blue?" Seems like 50% of the time someone is out of position because they went to GET BLUE. There is a goddam item that costs 390 that is pretty much the equivalent of "getting blue." I recommend people start buying it if they are that hard up for mana and can't hit HQ to refresh now and again, which is another problem we have, isn't it. Some peeps don't like going to heal and prefer to just die again.
And isn't mid-late game about the right time to stop worrying about jungling at all, and start the team fights? We are always fighting 4v5 because level 18 peeps just can't stand the dogs being alive.
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| Post Number: 51
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GORDON
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,11:31 |
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As far as character draft in the elimination games:
Of course I would love it if the first guy in line picks Singed so I could be sure to get it, but I am certainly not going to insist on it. Â Everyone wants to be sure to get their "main." Â The question to ask is whether it is more important that I get Singed than it is for, say, Cake to get Ashe. Â If it is more important, then yeah, maybe we should get Singed lokced in early before the other team does.
Edited by GORDON on Mar. 20 2012,18:16
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| Post Number: 52
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,12:21 |
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QUOTE 2. Â I wasn't pushing out like I do with Singed. Â Early game in mid, I was kicking Fizz's ass out of the lane, over and over. Â And four times, when I made a big push and went for the kill - every single time - the gank comes out of the weeds and I die.
And how many ganks were you given?
QUOTE 4. Â I was getting shut out of all money mid and late game. Â I know we have discussed this before, and I know that everyone else has an "every man for himself" mentality about it, but every. single. time. I went into a lane or spawn to hit a group of minions, or a monster spawn, every. single. time. there was suddenly 1-3 other people there with me, getting every. single. one. of the last hits, and taking all the money. Â I made it to level 18 and I had exactly 3 completed items. Â I was underpowered and ineffective and it made for a 4v5 game where it only took Fizz's ult to kill me from full health.
I disagree with that statement. I don't know if anyone notices or not, but I try to go to lanes where other folks aren't to farm. I pull off of minions so that whoever else is there can get last hits. Do I take a couple for myself? YES, and I should. I'm trying to share the kills. We all need farm, but there are times when you just have to do what you have to do. I don't think there's a fix for this when it's late game and we're desperate. Actually, the fix is to make more money early game as a team and not die as much.
QUOTE And what is the deal with everyone getting distracted by "getting blue?" Â Seems like 50% of the time someone is out of position because they went to GET BLUE. Â There is a goddam item that costs 390 that is pretty much the equivalent of "getting blue." Â I recommend people start buying it if they are that hard up for mana and can't hit HQ to refresh now and again, which is another problem we have, isn't it. Â Some peeps don't like going to heal and prefer to just die again.
I could not agree more.
QUOTE And isn't mid-late game about the right time to stop worrying about jungling at all, and start the team fights? Â We are always fighting 4v5 because level 18 peeps just can't stand the dogs being alive.
I get still jungling. I don't get ignoring team fights to jungle.
Hey look, there's 3v3 in mid, and there goes my 4th teammate heading to the fight. I think I'll go kill the dogs.
What.The.Fuck?
QUOTE Of course I would love it if the first guy in line picks Singed so I could be sure to get it, but I am certainly not going to insist on it. Â Everyone wants to be sure to get their "main." Â The question to ask is whether it is more important that I get Singed than it is for, say, Cake to get Ashe. Â If it is more important, then yeah, maybe we should get Singed lokced in early before the other team does.
I used Singed as an example because he's a popular character. It's more important to me that you get Singed rather than me getting MF.
Edited by GORDON on Mar. 20 2012,18:18
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| Post Number: 53
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Cakedaddy
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,12:50 |
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The "main" concept is what is hurting us. I consider Ashe, Noc and Maokai my mains. I am equally effective as any one of them. I don't think our team NEEDS Singed because Singed wins games, we need it because he's your "main" and any other champ would lower your effectiveness. We have to get away from this. And I don't think we need to have 5 mains. I just think we should not play any more than 5. And really, this rule only applies to Scooty who is the only one that tries to play more than 5. But I do think we should have at least 3.
Role specialization: Well, you all can do that, but I like cross training. Sometimes, our random 5th can't fill the role we need. By having the ability to play multiple roles, I have more to offer. But, I don't feel the need to make this mandatory. If you don't like melee playing, then don't do it. No one should have to do something they don't want to. Even if it does help the team. :-)
I carry health potions when I jungle so that I can show up for a gank with 75%+ health. Showing up with anything less is only making you primary and an easy kill. The ONLY time I would go in with less is if I just happened to be there when my teammates were beating the enemy's ass and I can steal a kill or two. Ronnie will park himself in the bushes at <50% and then turret dive. . . Last night, I told him to back off, it wasn't worth it. He agreed. But I can't remember if he listened or not. When I jungle, I pass through the jungle, and check the lane I'm heading for. Lately, you guys have been pushing the hell out of the lanes and there is no gank. Which is fine. So I go back to the jungle. Jungling with no ganking is boring because the monsters don't spawn fast enough. As a team, we should not be pushing so hard so we can create a ganking situation, and so we are creating a ganking buffet for the enemy jungler. I used to wait till level 6 to gank. I don't any more. 3 healthy teammates against two enemies equals a kill for us, or at least we scare them a bit. I don't have to be our jungler, but, we have to consider asking Ronnie to play something else. Problem is, he really likes jungling, and he thinks he's good at it.
Last night, we did need AP. But, a shitty AP is worse than tripling up on AD. We have to make sure we have enough competence on the board. In other words, if we already have people playing 'off main', picking another 'off main' to fill a role is going to be worse than putting a 'main' in a role that's already covered. And with Ronnie jungling, we've already burned one of our 'off main' slots. :-). Even though you did good as Ryze early, we might have been better off with GP as you pointed out. I may have been a better Brand, etc. Point is, role coverage is important, but not to the extent of having a weak 'off main' team.
Farming and sharing stuff. That game was lost no matter who got the farm. You were weak, so that others could be strong. Could have reversed that and the kills/deaths could have shifted, but the result would have been the same. They were dominating us. In a closer match, distribution of the farm could lead to a different outcome. But I still believe that the carries should be fed the most. A full Trynd and a weak Ryze will beat a full Ryze and weak Trynd, in my opinion. But ideally, we are playing so that everyone is farming. . . So, rather than figure out the proper distribution of what little farm there is late game when we're getting beat, lets fix the situation leading to that situation. We MUST start playing differently early game.
Scooty and Ronnie have similar issues. They are really good players, every once in a while. How do we beat it into their heads to play better? I know I have bad games. But I think I have more good games than bad. Scooty and Ronnie are the opposite. Ronnie takes critisism WAY better than Scooty. So, I think we can talk to Ronnie during the game to change something. Instead of hinting "I could really use a gank up top." We instruct "Ronnie, stop fighting the dogs and gank top now." With Scooty, you can't try to correct anything, ever, because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, ever. But bottom line, our team has a specific play style. We have "X" amount of talent. And currently, we are using our style and talent a certain way. If you can't mesh with it, then, we aren't a team and are going to lose. So, we may not be playing the perfect game, but, it's the game we are playing. . . so, get on the same page, or move on to another team that plays a different style. It's no fun for any of us when we aren't a team, because we lose. Or, present a case for changing things and then we, as a team, can decide to change things. But one or two people, mid game, deciding the team is wrong and things should be played a different way just pisses everyone off.
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| Post Number: 54
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| Post Number: 55
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Cakedaddy
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,13:07 |
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Oh ya, late game jungling. It's ONLY done when there's nothing else to do. If we just killed them all and are pulling back from a push, I'll clear the jungle. I know they will be recovering from our push and I'm relatively safe. It will be a couple extra 100 to spend when I go back. When we are desperate, I will try to sneak in a couple spawns for the extra push. But, I try to be as safe about it as possible. Last night, I would scout the area with Ashe's arrow and only go if it was clear. Also, I was warding our side of the jungle for more protection. Going blind is stupid and only hurting us. Finishing a spawn you started regardless of the team fight that's building is WRONG. Ronnie and Scooty do this CONSTANTLY. "Ok, I'll be right there. Just finishing up Red/Blue". No, you go NOW. I leave spawns with 25% health to help the team. This is the only way to make sure you win. You showing up late with red only means that in about 3 to 5 seconds, the enemies will have red. So tied of a fight being ignored to get a buff only for that buff to be immediately handed off to the enemy. So, random jungling is good, but low priority.
QUOTE It's more important to me that you get Singed rather than me getting MF.
This is only true if you believe that Singed is better than MF. If you believe it because Gordon's alternative to Singed is worse than your alternative to MF, then that needs to be fixed. This was covered in more detail in my previous post. If a teammate is being crippled by a single champ ban, then that guy needs to step it up!
Our priorities right now should be learning the rest of our team. Those with one main, get a second one. Those with a plethora of champs, narrow it down so we can learn to play with you. Second, learn that a teammate in a fight is > anything else you are doing right now. Jungler, you are hitting every fight you see. Get some jungle spawns if you have time. ONLY if there is time. Once laning has stopped, if someone is in a fight, you go there. Period. If you are in a fight, MAKE SURE YOU ARE GOING TO WIN IT. If you aren't, run towards your team that is already on the way. If we are split pushing (team fighting mid, Singed pushing top solo during the distraction), COMMUNICATE. "Singed, three are now MIA". Singed: "I've got two on me now, but I'm getting away, maintain the push in the middle", etc. But as soon as someone says "I need help", the whole team must respond. One hit from killing the dragon? Too bad. HELP YOUR TEAMMATE.
That's my thoughts anyway.
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| Post Number: 56
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Cakedaddy
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,13:13 |
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(Scooty Poof @ Mar. 10 2012,07:55)
QUOTE QUOTE With Scooty, you can't try to correct anything, ever, because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, ever. The man is right, i have major anger issues and take everything personal. Don't cross me or i might murder you <_<
You make light of it. But more often than not, you are the one dragging the group down making everyone want to quit early. If we try to correct a situation, you make it worse.
The first half of your statement has truth. You have anger issues and take everything personal. Well, don't. We are trying to play a better/smarter game and win. If getting you on the same page as us makes you attack us, then it's not healthy for us to play together. If you think we are wrong, then bring your suggestions up here. Not in the middle of the game. Don't argue a new team style mid game. It's not going to happen. You know what we are looking for. If you can't play along, then, everyone is miserable. So, either make suggestions here, or learn to play our way.
That's not a threat or anything. It's a game. We should be having fun. When it's not fun any more, then we should stop playing. If you think we are dumb and playing wrong, then teach us. But being snarky and disrespectful mid game just makes us swear we are never playing with you again.
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| Post Number: 57
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| Post Number: 58
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GORDON
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,19:04 |
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(Leisher @ Mar. 10 2012,15:21)
QUOTE QUOTE 4. Â I was getting shut out of all money mid and late game. Â I know we have discussed this before, and I know that everyone else has an "every man for himself" mentality about it, but every. single. time. I went into a lane or spawn to hit a group of minions, or a monster spawn, every. single. time. there was suddenly 1-3 other people there with me, getting every. single. one. of the last hits, and taking all the money. Â I made it to level 18 and I had exactly 3 completed items. Â I was underpowered and ineffective and it made for a 4v5 game where it only took Fizz's ult to kill me from full health. I disagree with that statement. I don't know if anyone notices or not, but I try to go to lanes where other folks aren't to farm. I pull off of minions so that whoever else is there can get last hits. Do I take a couple for myself? YES, and I should. I'm trying to share the kills. We all need farm, but there are times when you just have to do what you have to do. I don't think there's a fix for this when it's late game and we're desperate. Actually, the fix is to make more money early game as a team and not die as much.
I feel so strongly about this that I am going to keep discussing it, since you asked.
Last night this is exactly what I was doing. When an empty lane was getting gobbed up with enemy minions, I went there alone to clear it and try to catch up in levels/gold. But, as Ryze, I can't just clear them quickly like an AD can, or Singed with his gas, so it takes me a few seconds. But, in that few seconds when I haven't killed them all yet, 1-3 people show up, and I am not exaggerating, get every single last hit. Very, extremely frustrating, especially since it happened to me at least 4 times. My team couldn't have kept me down better if they had actually been trying to. They exactly, perfectly, fucked me out of money.
Honestly, it sems to me that the "you may have been weak but it just meant others got stronger" argument means that if someone gets behind, it is better they just sit in spawn doing nothing, and not feed the enemy kills. Does anyone actually think that is the path to winning, or is it better to work as a team and keep the entire team up to speed? Because it astounds me that I am alone in that thinking.
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| Post Number: 59
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Cakedaddy
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,19:06 |
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I've made it clear that he needs to play our way, or find another team. Right now, he's teaming up with his friends. I have no intention of inviting him any more to games that matter. What games matter? I don't know. I guess games where other people are playing or that we want to win. :-) I challenged him to a game last week. He immediately messaged his friends with the challenge. They have yet to respond. He was talking strategy with his friend tonight. I pointed out that they would even have that advantage. They know who we are going to play, but we don't know who they are going to play. But it's not going to matter.
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| Post Number: 60
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Leisher
Top 3%, yo.
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Posted on: Mar. 10 2012,22:49 |
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For the record, I'm pro-Scooty.
I don't mind the various champs as much, BUT I'd like it if he ran down in champ select and early game what to expect so we'd know.
If I was to honestly point out anything about his game, it'd be the two things I've always said to him:
1. Don't bother arguing with strangers. It's a waste of time and might just get him reported. (Note: One of the best wins we've ever had was a recent TT against a Talon who talked just a ridiculous amount of trash. We were silent while getting pushed early. We came back strong and beat them in a single push. Even his team was calling him out post match for being a loudmouth who couldn't back it up. THAT'S how you shut up a jackass.)
2. When mid and late game comes focus more on the team than farming. (Note: This is the same advice I tell Ronnie, and try to live myself because I make this mistake too.)
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