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Topic: "Minimum Income" for all....< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 21
GORDON Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2015,11:58  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, I had intended from all sources of income.

Set the system so that if there is a budget surplus, the minimum salary goes up, which means rich peeps also get to make and keep more money.  Incentiveses them to keep improving things.  The important thing is that the salary cap will always be tied to the minimum salary to keep a runaway top 1% situation from happening the way it is now.

++++

For a minute I was thinking the minimum income could save businesses money by really reducing what they pay employees who bother to still work.... but then I realized no one would work full time at McD's for $1 per hour when they are already making $15k per year for being alive.  I imagine we'd have a more natural minimum wage (beyond the Guaranteed Minimum Salary, hereafter known as the GMS), though.  There would be no need to artificially set a limit.  People will either flip burgers for $5 hour, or they wont, but at least they'd have their GMS as a "living wage," as the hippies call it.


Edited by GORDON on Nov. 13 2015,11:59

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 17 2015,07:34 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Read For Us, The Living by Heinlein.  Not his best work as an author, but part of it is outlining exactly what you just said but with a solid grounding in economic theory to go with it.

Edited by TPRJones on Nov. 17 2015,07:35

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,18:40 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GORDON @ Aug. 21 2015,00:03)
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Finland is considering giving all of their citizens a "minimum income," no matter whether or not they currently have a job.

Here's another article about it, they are maybe moving forward with a "negative income tax."

http://www.city-journal.org/html....52.html

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This year, the Finnish government hopes to begin granting every adult citizen a monthly allowance of €800 (roughly $900). Whether rich or poor, each citizen will be free to use the money as he or she sees fit. The idea is that people are responsible for their actions. If someone decides to spend their €800 on vodka, that is their decision, and has nothing to do with the government. In return for the UBI, however, the public accepts the elimination of most welfare services. Currently, the Finnish government offers a variety of income-based assistance programs for everything from housing to children’s education to property insulation. Axing these programs should free up enough public resources to finance the UBI. The bureaucracy that currently governs welfare payments will disappear. There will no longer be any need to ask for government help, nor to fill out forms or wait for the competent authorities to examine each dossier to determine eligibility.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,18:55 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I kinda like it, but there's gonna be the dumbasses who blow it all and still need help.

And there's people who just aren't capable of helping themselves.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,19:04 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TheCatt @ Apr. 11 2016,21:55)
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I kinda like it, but there's gonna be the dumbasses who blow it all and still need help.

And there's people who just aren't capable of helping themselves.

More and more I think these people need to just be sloughed off of the skin of civilization.  If they can't find a church charity or a sucker of a family member to feed them, then they just gotta be cut loose.

How to keep them from breaking into houses and raiding the fridge because they spent all their money on day 1 on crack?  I dunno.  One problem at a time.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,19:41 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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How to keep them from breaking into houses and raiding the fridge because they spent all their money on day 1 on crack?  I dunno.  One problem at a time.

Uh, no.  That's a prereq to implementing this shit because doing it ad hoc is rife with shitty compromises.  Even if you had something like this, it still wouldn't work.  The real bitch is that there are some crackheads worth the effort.


Edited by Malcolm on Apr. 11 2016,19:45

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,19:53 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ease the restrictions on lethal home defense systems.  Let the problem fix itself.

The universe is going to keep creating poor people faster than we can fix them, and eventually we will hit critical mass.  Might as well fix the problem while we still have some nice stuff.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,20:02 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The universe ain't creating shit unless you're talking about hypothetical people somewhere on other planets.  People create poor people.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,20:27 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Malcolm @ Apr. 11 2016,20:02)
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The universe ain't creating shit unless you're talking about hypothetical people somewhere on other planets.  People create poor people.

And interestingly, as education, income, and availability of family planning services rise, they create fewer of them. So a negative tax could be a good breeding disincentive as well.

http://www.economist.com/node/14743589

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Macroeconomic research bears out this picture. Fertility starts to drop at an annual income per person of $1,000-2,000 and falls until it hits the replacement level at an income per head of $4,000-10,000 a year (see chart 2). This roughly tracks the passage from poverty to middle-income status and from an agrarian society to a modern one.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,20:39 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Malcolm @ Apr. 11 2016,23:02)
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The universe ain't creating shit unless you're talking about hypothetical people somewhere on other planets.  People create poor people.

Thanks for nailing that down, I honestly didn't know people created p;eople.

o fuck what if they create themselves mind blown


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,20:47 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Thanks for nailing that down...

Obvious as it may sound, it does imply shit like this...
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as education, income, and availability of family planning services rise, they create fewer of them [people]

... is important and has a chance of bringing it under control.  It's no coincidence the 100 or so countries with the least of the above have the highest fertility rates.  Then all the refugees from unpleasant places everyone loves bitching about might not flee in such titanic droves.


Edited by Malcolm on Apr. 11 2016,20:48

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Diogenes of Sinope:

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"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2016,20:56 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GORDON @ Apr. 11 2016,20:39)
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o fuck what if they create themselves mind blown

Hah!


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