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Vince 
I make sweet, sweet love to my legally licenced copy of Microsoft Vista.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 5016
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 17 2015,04:39 |
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This will be the up side to moving to a place between two towns where one has a population of about 350 and the other 1400. I don't think gay weddings and gender choice restrooms are going to be an issue.
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 17 2015,10:55 |
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QUOTE “It’s only going to create more confusion in the minds of young people who don’t need any further confusion about sexual identity,” he said.
Goddamn, I hate that word.
QUOTE ...the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls.
With the glaring exception of physical biology in the vast majority of cases, that's not entirely insane.
This is.
QUOTE I must confess that I’m a bit old school on sex education. I believe that God created male and female. My reading of the Bible does not indicate there were dozens of other options.
As is this.
QUOTE “The larger picture is this is really an attack on nature itself – the created order,” said Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council.
An attack on nature itself? Oh, motherfucking please. If there's anything that's an attack on nature, it's monogamy.
QUOTE “At the end of this is the deconstruction of gender - absolutely,” she told me. “The majority of people pushing (this) are not saying that – but that clearly is the motivation.”
Holy shit. Run for the fucking hills. That fails to register any sort of alarm in me. Dripping faucets warrant more attention.
QUOTE And the Family Research Council’s Sprigg said there’s a pretty good reason why they can’t produce a textbook about fluidity.
“It’s an ideological concept,” he told me. “It’s not a scientific one.”
You can produce plenty of text books on ideological concepts.
You can also drag your kids out if you want.
QUOTE However, Torre told me that parents will indeed be able to opt out of those classes “including the sexual orientation and gender identity lessons.”
That'd be School Board spokesman John Torre.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 4
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,07:15 |
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Oh no! Children who feel like they aren't exactly like everyone else might not be properly shamed into repressing their personal identity and hiding their true selves from everyone around them like they live in the fucking body snatchers movie! That would be awful!
Where will we get our highly-effeminate-and-clearly-in-denial Republican congressman if they aren't taught to hate their freaky little selves like God intended?
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 5
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Vince
I make sweet, sweet love to my legally licenced copy of Microsoft Vista.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 5016
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,09:55 |
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Pffft... can we have a program including D&D player curriculum also? How about the Jewish curriculum for all those poor Jewish kids that feel "apart". People with facial birthmarks? Biracial kids ALWAYS feel like they don't belong during parent teacher night with their two parents of different colors. I know there's already a class for the band members, but that really doesn't help the NON band member students learn to accept their band member fellow students for the nerdy band members they are!
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| Post Number: 6
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,10:03 |
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I get your point, but it's not at all parallel. We are already teaching these kids in great detail every year that there are exactly and only two ways to be and everyone else should just stuff down any doubts about themselves and shut up and go to the right bathroom / locker room / gym class / whatever because the sexual binary is the end-all and be-all of gender expression.
If we weren't already covering that curriculum in excruciating detail for their entire education, then what you said would be relevant.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 7
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Vince
I make sweet, sweet love to my legally licenced copy of Microsoft Vista.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 5016
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,10:27 |
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Sorry, I just think the gender identity question is bogus. Not that people or kids with the disorder should be taunted or picked on any more than any other kid that's different is taunted or picked on. But this seems to be the only place in nature or anywhere else that we approach the situation like this. Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense, I have a hard time believing that the 99.99999998 % of the human body in question is what is wrong in being a male body rather than the 0.00000002 percent that happens to reside in the brain that thinks it should be a female body.
And thinking that everyone else (the overwhelming majority) must suck it up if they are uncomfortable when someone with the other gender is in the stall next to them is really jacked up thinking.
If I have a router that somehow ended up with the firmware from a microwave oven, I don't turn the router into a microwave over. I work on reflashing the firmware so it knows it's actually a router.
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| Post Number: 8
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,10:37 |
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QUOTE If I have a router that somehow ended up with the firmware from a microwave oven, I don't turn the router into a microwave over. I work on reflashing the firmware so it knows it's actually a router.
The human mind doesn't work like a circuit. Thank jeebus.
QUOTE But this seems to be the only place in nature or anywhere else that we approach the situation like this. Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense, I have a hard time believing that the 99.99999998 % of the human body in question is what is wrong in being a male body rather than the 0.00000002 percent that happens to reside in the brain that thinks it should be a female body.
I'll repeat this: what fuck bits biology assigns you at birth can be completely distinct from how your brain gets wired. The brain has an unbelievably large effect on the body.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 9
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| Post Number: 10
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,10:47 |
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Okay, let's try a political approach instead. Â Do you believe it is the place of the government to tell people how they should live their lives? Â Or do you believe that each individual has the right to pursue their happiness (as long as it doesn't conflict with the rights of another, yadda yadda)?
If your answer is the former then we will never agree on anything. Â But I believe your answer is the latter. Â If that is so, who are you to interfere with someone pursuing their happiness just because you don't personally understand? Â They don't need your permission to be who or what they want to be.
Edited by TPRJones on May 18 2015,10:48
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 11
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Vince
I make sweet, sweet love to my legally licenced copy of Microsoft Vista.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 5016
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,11:14 |
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I do not believe it's the place of the government to tell people how they should live their lives. Â I also don't think it's the place of the government to tell people how they should feel about sharing their public bathroom with someone who is physically of the opposite sex.
People that are anorexic and see their bodies as too fat when their ribs, hips and cheekbones are about to poke through the skin, people that hit the gym nonstop and look perfectly fit but are juicing because they don't think they look fit enough, people that have all sorts of body image issues are not enabled by society (not the government here, but society). Â However on this one body image issue, if we aren't supportive of what appears to be some sort of mental delusional issue then society is wrong?
I really have no problem with guys wear dresses and G-strings if that's their thing. Â I resent being told that not enabling them in their delusions is somehow immoral.
The saddest part here is if science came out today and said they have a treatment that would properly align that part of the brain in these people and they would accept the gender they were born into, the political climate today would crucify those scientists.
Edited by Vince on May 18 2015,11:17
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| Post Number: 12
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TPRJones
I saw The Fault in our Stars opening night.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 12384
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,11:26 |
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That doesn't sound like a cure, it sounds like brainwashing. You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise, I would need to see clear evidence that identifies the specific cause and why that mental quirk is a "disorder" where all the others that make up our personality and define who we are are not disorders.
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Vidi Perfutui Veni
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| Post Number: 13
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,11:27 |
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QUOTE However on this one body image issue, if we aren't supportive of what appears to be some sort of mental delusional issue then society is wrong?
Gender is not solely related to your body. Â I don't know how many more ways I can say that.
QUOTE The saddest part here is if science came out today and said they have a treatment that would properly align that part of the brain in these people and they would accept the gender they were born into, the political climate today would crucify those scientists.
1) You're assuming that's even possible.
2) You're assuming they're "misaligned" somehow.
Let's play this another way. Â There's nothing in nature that says there's a higher power, but 99% of the world believes in one. Â Why isn't that some form of mental illness? Â Hell, we've got an entire field of study devoted to that. Â Numbers don't mean shit in this case. Â A gender comprised entirely of one or two people is no less valid than a gender composed of one or two billion.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 14
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Vince
I make sweet, sweet love to my legally licenced copy of Microsoft Vista.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 5016
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,11:30 |
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(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,12:41)
QUOTE See, you use that word "disorder" like it applies here. Â There's a fundamental problem where this is a topic of discussion that you and I will never come even close to agreeing on. QUOTE Until they can explain it in some way that makes sense... I believe this is perhaps an issue that you will never be able to understand where they are coming from. Â Much like how my grandfather could never understand why people insisted that the races should be treated equally even if they are sometimes different in the particulars. I'm not calling you racist, I'm saying your fundamental world view is no longer compatible with what appears to be a future trend and you are as unwilling to move forward as he was when the same thing happened to him. People are neither routers or microwave ovens.
I don't think you're calling me a racist, but unless your grandfather thought being black was possibly a mental disorder that could be fixed, it's really not the same.
Minority babies and the mentally retarded with intact reproductive systems were no longer compatible with the future trend in the 20's and 30's until as a society we realized the means to the end were really, really monstrous. Â Not saying your a eugenicist (or monstrous), but sometimes we don't realize the damage we might be doing until we later realize we may have misunderstood the problem.
Edited by Vince on May 18 2015,11:38
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| Post Number: 15
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,11:32 |
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QUOTE Not saying your a eugenicist (or monstrous), but sometimes we don't realize the damage we might be doing until we later realize we may have misunderstood the problem.
But the potential damage from telling people they must fit in exactly one of two specific, unchanging boxes, that's acceptable risk?
QUOTE I don't think you're calling me a racist, but unless your grandfather thought being black was possibly a mental disorder that could be fixed, it's really not the same.
You have to be shitting me.
Edited by Malcolm on May 18 2015,11:32
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 19
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Malcolm
I disagree.
Group: Privateers
Posts: 27168
Joined: May 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,12:00 |
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(Vince @ May 18 2015,13:38)
QUOTE
(TPRJones @ May 18 2015,13:26)
QUOTE That doesn't sound like a cure, it sounds like brainwashing. Â You would have a hard time convincing me otherwise, I would need to see clear evidence that identifies the specific cause and why that mental quirk is a "disorder" where all the others that make up our personality and define who we are are not disorders. Fair enough. Â I will need to see clear evidence that this is something other than a form of xenomelia before I will likely believe it to be something else.
Again, you're shitting me. Transgenderism != hacking off a limb.
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Diogenes of Sinope:
"It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
"Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends in order to save them."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC:
"Better dead than smeg."
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| Post Number: 20
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GORDON
90%
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 36125
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: May 18 2015,12:12 |
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Thrugh my childhood, 20's, and most of my 30's, I was just going along happily coexisting with gays and trannies and whatever else was out there. never had a raised hand or a harsh word for them.
But the last few years I am being treated like a "cis scum" enemy because.... I'm not even sure why.
Is there a pill I can take to not be cis scum?
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I don't give a fuck!
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